Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ukrainian Ranger]

We can easily make a specialized revision of pigeon with rocket pods. Maybe even this turn. 300kg is enough for rockets and a launcher

Helicopters are not the main way to supply armies even nowadays. They are used for either urgent supplying (because flying over straight line is better than any truck, ship or train) or for supplying hardly accesable areas.

[Taricus]

And we can't use our large transport planes for that?

Also, an idea. Thoughts on revising a version of the MAR51 into an LMG for our paratroopers?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

And we can't use our large transport planes for that?

Nope.

1) You can't parachute everything and it is rather unreliable for stuff we can.
2) It can't land everywhere, in fact such aircrafts need good landing strip. I am not sure they can even land on dirt
3) There are too few of them, while Pigeons are way easier to produce. Within few turns many infantry units will have it
4) This monster are easy to spot and shoot down now and it will become an even easier target in coming years. While Pigeon will stay viable for a long time
5) Transport planes can't fulfill other utility roles like recon

Light utility helicopters are created for stuff like:

1) Hey, we need to transfer new commanding officer to unit AAA
2) Hey, armored unit BBB need that small detail to fix engine of their tank before the morning. Bring along some fresh water because they are short of it.
3) Hey, unit CCC is surrounded, they need some ammo to hold until unit DDD can rescue them
3) Hey, we have wounded guy in the middle of jungle, we need to evacuate him
4) Hey, we need to conduct some reconsinanse
5) Hey, lets do a little surprise tonight and land several helicopters worth of soldiers behind enemy lines

And so on.

[Baffler]

Also, an idea. Thoughts on revising a version of the MAR51 into an LMG for our paratroopers?

Sounds decent, but I think focusing too much on paras is going to hurt us in the long run. Our army is mostly made up of large numbers of poorly equipped and supported infantry units right now, we should do something that mostly benefits them if anything. Maybe improved signals equipment, or a troop carrier based on the Bengal, or an MAR variant better suited for heavy combat.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Revisions I like are:

1)making attack pigeon variant (if it will be voted)

Something like this
This variant of pigeon has smaller cabin(pilot+passenger) and equiped with a single underfuselage rocket pod firing unguided 70mm missiles
[small, specialized, original cost +1 chemicals/b]

2) Better troop carrier
This variant of UF-CV35 lacks Bumblebee and has its deck adapted to landing helicopters of Pigeon size. Its construction was optimized in attempt to reduce ore cost
(5 Ore (ones less ore because of lack id Bumblebee and optimized hull, 3 Oil) (Ship, Medium)
Bumblebees are rather useless for self-defense against both real warships and jet era aircrafts. Reducing cost for one ore is good even if minor... Yet I think that there are little improvement to justify revision. Would love to hear ideas for improving our troop carriers because we will need them after we finish Java, better start building them earlier

3) Better radio
This version of radio have some of its components replaced by more modern materials, increasing its range and reducing its weight
(1 Ore, 1 chemicals)


4) Nighthunter tank
Otherwise standard T2 Breaker equipped by an innovative infrared  vision system, making it way more effective during nights. Meant to supplement, not replace standard breakers
(5 ore, 2 oil, 1 chemicals, Vehicle, Medium, Specialized, +1 expense from infrared vision)
Longshotish revision to get a tasty tech, few will be produced

[Taricus]

Well, I can't really support a light utility 'copter at this point, we don't have the luxury on doing so. Slap on a couple of rocket pods though and I'd be good with it though. And it's got far too small a troop capacity to effectively transport troops for an assault onto another island. Especially since we can likely fix both the copter and the rockets in one revision action anyway.

As for troop carriers, we'll need landing craft for them as well to ensure they can also transport heavier assets (Though if we get something like the Mil Mi-24v that may be somewhat redundant.) The bumblebee will be sufficient as an air defence until they start their own jet aircraft projects, so we'd have a few turns of breathing space on that front and even then it's only a revision for us to remake the bolt as an interceptor.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I think we actually have "luxury" to do simple practical things instead of going for advanced complex stuff with "great" performance. Pigeon is exactly like bolt - simple cheap design that starts countdown for free tech use

Bumblebee is useless even against strafing runs of their current fighter because it is a heavy flak - not something you can effectively aim at low flying enemy. Dead weight on the transport ship if you ask me.
Pigeons can't be a way to do a full scale invasion but they are rather good for tactical landings.
Adding rubber boats to troop carrier is something I considered mostly because it is too small to be a very small ship and it will be weird as vehicle but it looks like a way to exploit a system, something I prefer to avoid. And rubber boats look like +1 new tech


Anyway, what are our current votes for the design?

[Taricus]

The problem with rubber boats is their vulnerability, something the hovercraft massively outclasses it in.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I am not going to support spending a valuable design action on a narrow niche hovercraft or way too complex and expensive assault helicopter. New personal weapon, artillery, tank, APC.... everything is plain better to finish Java

[Taricus]

The hovercraft is essentially a testbed, likely to be viable with only a few revision actions while enabling us to build larger landing craft. It'll also be effective along waterways and in swampland as well. Same with mounting a pair of rocket pods on the helicopter. While in both cases they'd be more expensive due to the higher tech, and thus have smaller production numbers the vastly increased potential outweighs that. A chopper that can deliver supplies and assist our ground troops is definitely more useful to us than one that just transports.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I believe that in most cases universal = bad at all roles. Having light utility helicopter and light attack helicopters is better than mixing both of them in one vehicle that can't do both roles good. Especially considering game mechanics.

Mi-24 helicopter is the only one that is\was used both for ground support and transporting troops, but it is anything but utility. It is a flying IFV. And the whole concept is very advanced for 1950s  (before you mention UH-1s, different versions of them were used for different roles. Besides we are talking about smaller helicopter )

[Taricus]

Hey, I wouldn't mind eventually getting something like the mi-24. That being said neither of the designs I'm talking about are universal, they do have more roles which they can fill than just the one, but they aren't going to suffer for it barring them being used improperly. Besides, if we gave the helicopter some armament we can use it to resupply our forces closer to the frontline.

[10ebbor10]

I counted the votes

Hovercraft : GUNINANRUN, Tryrar, ?Taricus?
     - Opposed : Ukrainian Ranger
Helicopter : DanSmithers, Ukrainian Ranger, Tophat, Tryrar

So, the Helicopter is quite clearly winning.

On that note, I figured out something hilarious. The enemy made their gun so complicated that it's tech isn't getting cheaper.

Also, there's an art contest going on

As the next year begins, a message comes down from both governments.  Due to the lackluster income of soldiers during the year, both have decided to launch a competition within their ranks to attempt to bring in more soldiers in the coming few years...

[Ukrainian Ranger]

How about replacing this

A light, single rotor helicopter capable to carry pilot and 3-5 passengers or ~300 to 400kg of cargo.

With this

  A light, single rotor utility helicopter with empty weight around one ton. In addition to a cabin with two seats it has a small cargo hold that can house 4 fully equipped soldiers or ~400kg of cargo or 2 medics and wounded soldier or gunner with Sorraria machine-gun or anything else army may want to fit inside

This adds some ground attack ability without making it more complex.

[10ebbor10]

Fine for me.