What "other" forms there are?
Fuck if I know what form the formless takes, that's like trying to categorize what random finnish memelords will make next. It's impossible
the ride never ends
[skeleton noises in september]
Make that two camps and you've got a pretty realistic view of the situation. Except that doing away with democratic institutions really is a very shitty idea, and anyone who feels attracted to it is very much like a fly in that metaphorical sense.
No, that is not realistic. Take for example in the UK where the Remain camp was arguing in favour of doing away with democratic institutions, I have never met anyone rude enough to call Remain voters flies in shit. Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed
The concept of tradition is not inherently good or bad for anyone on either side of the political divide. There are many time-honored western traditions that modern right-wingers cannot stomach at all, and even the most ignorant and self-centered of SJWs feel the need to entertain some ideas of continuity with the struggles of previous generations. Cherry-picking is the name of the game with traditions, though, no matter who you are.
I don't really buy your argument when you're talking explicitly of trampling on traditions whilst conservatism's prime tenet is conserving continuity.
The difference between how groups compare their values especially in regards to such thing as tradition are easily shown when put side by side. The left-right divide is too simplistic to make any meaningful distinctions however, but between groups like conservative and progressive, these values and the better defined groups have different priorities which means they respond to the same circumstances and information differently. They're useful things to take stock of, an ignoramus larping with the superficial aspects of their appearance do not in any way compare to those who actually try to cultivate their traditions. Compare for example, the Japanese kimono exporters who had their art show shut down by Japanese Americans,
Americans who didn't even speak Japanese. Nationalists and Conservatives both identify things within their nation to cultivate, the former placing emphasis on the nation and the latter on continuity, they would not for example in a million years get to the Swedish conclusion that their people are worthless, that their traditions are nonexistent and that their death is a welcoming prospect. The various political groups that can be identified as at the very least socially "right-wing," they have many problems, a hatred of their own traditions is not one of them. That is very progressive
Well, yes, that's the stereotypical difference between liberal and conservative mindsets and their differing approaches to government and tradition: conservatives value kinship and local customs over civic traditions, and liberals value abstract liberties and institutions over things that strengthen communal unity.
I disagree, I believe that is the stereotypical difference between civic nationalist and conservative mindsets and their differing approaches to government and tradition. In the UK for example, the chief opposition to the coalition of civics and cons was libs, the libs alongside the progs being in favour of discontinuing our civic traditions and cultural traditions. Civic nats are content with the protection of all their civic institutions, cons want to protect even more
From a conservative point of view, liberals are cold-hearted elitist reptilians who want to impose arbitrary rules and regulations on their traditional way of life, and from a liberal point of view, conservatives are pigheaded imbeciles who simply refuse to understand that the institutions of democracy belong to everyone, conservatives included, and purposefully undermining them is the most self-defeating and stupid thing that a citizen of a democratic nation could do---regardless of whether said citizen already feels completely alienated from said institutions, as modern conservatives usually do. I understand the flaws of both caricatures, but I still believe that the liberal version is somewhat closer to "truth," if there is such a thing. The conservatives' alienation from the civic traditions is a lamentable problem, but it does not justify voting for an orange tin-pot dictator in protest. At least not if you want to keep on living in a democracy, and I know I do.
Now, for some reason I don't feel this is a particularly fair portrayal of how things are. It certainly is easy to defend yourself from your opponent's criticisms when you imagine them to be idiot subhuman flies who believe you're a reptile overlord.
To that end I can only offer you my perspective on things for now at least. There is great distance between the reality on how liberals see conservatives and how conservatives see liberals. This I suspect, is not a matter of exceptional virtue, but a matter of simple circumstance. Conservatives work under liberal bosses, receive education under liberal professors, consume media produced by liberals, consume news media produced by liberals, assuming they have anything to do with a city they will be constantly working alongside liberals. By contrast conservative areas usually have nothing whatsoever to offer inner city liberals, so there is never any incentive for them to go over there and intermingle. This creates a rather one sided transfer of information where conservatives grow very familiar with how the liberal world operates and what it values, but not the other way around. I think it's a very human thing, that people just don't want to learn about stuff that bores them, but rather usefully conservatives don't get a choice in the matter :]
Thus while conservatives can see liberals complaining that conservatives
just refuse to understand, liberals only see conservatives through the lens of the liberal community. Your caricature is itself, nothing more than a further parody of conservatives by liberals, both are liberal caricatures :/
I'm not even going to talk about the irony in which you portray conservatives as alienated by tradition and undermining democratic institutions, in such a time period where liberals having undermined their own traditions, are now undermining their own democratic institutions, feeling alienated from defeat. It's simply too easy. Frankly, seeing how the American conservatives are even now physically attacked, I don't see how they even had any choice in the matter. The progressives used common sense in Afghanistan and Iraq, determining that if they were not friends with the locals, the locals would turn to extremists for protection. Now you got your orange despot and you deserve it, this is the price to pay when you turn neighbours into enemies :
P
But if he is your orange despot, he is not to his voters. There is not only one way to live or see the world, I remember learning a Buddhist metaphor on dealing with other religions, on how we are all trying to reach the shore of distant lands but there is not only one boat we can take. Politics is no different, I have found partisanship to be harmful to democratic process, being divisive, dehumanizing and halting people from policing their own communities. Yesterday progressives covered up migrant sex slavery or violent attacks because it made their opponents more popular, at a time when they should've been taking most responsibility. In the world of tomorrow the new right-wing powers of the world will likewise face the same temptation, a temptation their own predecessors failed, to shirk this self-same responsibility. If your faction can never learn that your way of life is the only way of life the entirety of the planet can live, and that everyone else is just wrong and refuses to understand, you're forcing people into any boat that's not yours :[
Understanding can only take you so far until you bang your head against the brick wall of political antagonism: two contradictory truths, two irreconcilable versions of reality, absolutely nothing in between.
I don't subscribe to arbitrary binaries, check your privilege
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Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread (Read 1109129 times)