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[Sergarr]

I have no idea how reliable that "source" is, but if it's true, then Erdogan could set himself up for a second coup. Apparently there are internal rules in military that prevent Erdogan from just putting up his cronies in places of all deposed officers, so now he has to resort to restoring Kemalists, because he'd probably really piss them off otherwise.

It's pretty hilarious, because they were purged off the military less than a decade ago - for coup-proofing reasons.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't get what you're trying to mean. I was just pointing out that the Nice attacker killed a disproportionate number of Muslims compared to their proportion in the French population at large. I really have no clue what your point is with killing French kids?

You said the killer was killing infidels really inefficiently, I contend this notion

Yeah, actually you're right, pretty terrible phrasing. Force us to considers their claim if they show up and to not send them to dangerous countries. (Like that Greek judicial decision right after the Turkey deal).

They're basically a giant peer pressure group, really effective until you get the peeps who don't give af

As for Austria and Hungary, well, yes. The EU has no police force, no military, no border agency (Frontex is more of a coordination agency). IIRC, decision on immigration also need unanimity on the Council, so Europe was pretty much paralyzed since no one could agree on what to do.

*Police force = Europol
*Military = Eufor
*Border agency = Frontex
*National borders = Schengen'd and schlonged out of existence
*Decision on immigration decided by Merkel with the Council disagreeing anyways
Europe was paralyzed cos it was a stupid idea to begin with that literally gambled on Yuros being dragged into something they never asked for until it got so bad no one could stop it if they wanted to reverse it - that's dumb

You're bullshitting. What changed in Germany in 2015 was that they decided to no apply the Dublin protocol (that allows sending back refugees to the EU country the entered) for Syrians. That's what Merkel said. That's what Merkel did. Sure, only a third of asylum applications out of the half a million lodged in 2025 were from Syrians (Table 1), but they still outnumber the second largest group (Albanians) by a factor of three. Afgan were only a fifth of the number of Syrians.
If history is any guide though, most of those that will end up recognized as refugees and not be deported will be Syrians. In 2014 in Germany, 1% of Syrian applicants where turned down, while 82% of Albanian were.
So yeah, the policy was to target Syrians, and targeted Syrians even if other group used the chaos from crappy implementation to apply for asylum too (Between 2014 and 2015, numbers of Syrians went from 41k to 158k, Afghans for exemple went from 9,6k to 31 k).

LOL
-"What changed in 2015"
There's your problem boss, we don't live in 2015, we live in the current year - and more years than just 2015 led to 2016, what changed in 2015 was in response to the avalanche that already got rolling on policies we all talked about in an older thread, dunno why you forgot

Spoiler: Cite my shit up fam (click to show/hide)

People have very short memories, but these conversations repeat again and again(...) Merkel no longer has support for mass immigration. 2013, Merkel stresses that Germany must accept more refugees whilst her parliamentary bloc moves to classify the Balkans as safe, allowing for easier rejection of asylum seekers from Serbia, Macedonia, Albania e.t.c.. At that point Germany was taking in 200,000 refugees a year. They were warned that opening the door wider and leaving more incentives for people to make the journey to Germany would do the obvious; make more people make the journey to Germany.
By 2014:

Earlier in 2014 amongst first time asylum seekers the proportion of Syrians was around 10-15%, not accounting for second time asylum seekers, fake Syrians, those coming by sea nor immigrants who authorities fail to log. Eurostat has 700,000 asylum seekers in total logged across the EU despite countries like Germany alone taking in 750,000 illegal immigrants yearly, set to rise to 800,000 - conservative estimates. Measuring by asylum applications only takes into account those who bother to apply for asylum and takes their word for it.

That number had risen to 800,000 a year by conservative estimates, for Germany alone - excluding all other EU countries.
And unsurprisingly we are still talking about German and Swedish police covering up enriching crime, though it seems now they have shouldered all the blame leaving others just as responsible curiously clean.
By 2015 Merkel inquires whether Germany is losing that which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center. By then the rate of immigration had its estimate increased from 800,000 to 1,500,000, measured only by those who claimed asylum - excluding those who did not register. That number also does not include those logged as immigrants, legal or illegal. The number for Europe as a whole is set to increase to 3,000,000 in 2016, though I wonder how many times that number will be revised and how many will go to Germany.

Don't take your number for Germany from the formal asylum applications that year, which is just under 480,000. The number registered was under 1.5 million, for that year, for Germany alone. Current estimates for Germany in 2016 range from the optimistic (a fall to 900,000 a year) to the probable (a rise to 3 million a year) to the pessimistic (10 million beyond 2016, given by Gerd Muller, German minister of economic development).
Checking my numbers more using statistics from 2016 sources and not sources that were from the time as it happened:
At least 850,000 people are expected to cross the Mediterranean seeking refuge in Europe this year and next, the United Nations said on Tuesday, giving estimates that already look conservative.
"In 2015, UNHCR anticipates that approximately 400,000 new arrivals will seek international protection in Europe via the Mediterranean. In 2016 this number could reach 450,000 or more," it said in an appeal document.
Spokesman William Spindler said the prediction for this year was close to being fulfilled, with 366,000 having already made the voyage. The total will depend on whether migrants stop attempting the journey as the weather gets colder and the seas more dangerous.
So far, the numbers do not appear to have slowed down, with many appearing spurred on by Germany's announcement that it will ease the rules for Syrians seeking refuge who first reach the European Union through other countries.

So much power for so much Noams are led by people whose news station deliberately ignore inconvenient statistics or try to pass off official asylum logging reports as the sum total or try to pass off a singular Meditteranean route as the entirety of the trafficking. It's disingenuous and I'd expect more of them. Do note that the weather souring and winter arriving did not slow down the rate of immigration to Europe, as Germany's prized toleran and progresiv is more alluring than the bite of cold, with an average of 1,115 arriving daily in Greece in January. February's stats will be interesting.

Also lol, remember when the 2015 estimate was 1,500,000
It was actually 2,140,000
And that's from the Krauts own federal stat bureau; I'd bet many pennies they've not broken trend and it's still conservative xD
If that stat wasn't including refugees = Berlin quota btfo

I'm sure if we knew he was muslim, we'd be discussing how Islam encourage honour killing already.

I'm sure if we knew his motive we'd be discussing his motive

[martinuzz]

Now that's some decent sentencing. Let's hope it stands in case of appeal, and send a message to folks who think they can get away with honour killings.
25-30 years in prison is something that'll make you think twice.

[Loud Whispers]

It's not just Europeans, though. Look at Japan. Look at America. The wealthier and more educated people are, the less likely they are to have a lot of kids. And importing half the third world is a piss-poor solution to that. What we really need to do is implement social reforms that make it more attractive to be a parent - and that'll take much more than just increasing Child Tax Credit.

Look at Saudi Arabia, the richer they are the more children they have
Clearly Yuros just don't want to be parents, they are Chinese pandas who want to die
You also have to consider a lot of our education is pretty retarded, so kids come out dysfunctional with aposematism hair and clearly have no will for children of their own, seeing diversity as a moral obligation from their euphoric intellect

On overpopulation, honestly Europe doesn't make much of a difference either way, the population of the EU is what, 7% including migrants? Doesn't make all that much of a difference either way unless you're talking infrastructure or welfare

Now that's some decent sentencing. Let's hope it stands in case of appeal, and send a message to folks who think they can get away with honour killings.
25-30 years in prison is something that'll make you think twice.

Pakistan also passed the anti-honour killing bill recently cos no one likes being killed for no reason, even less so being killed by family for stupid reasons

[TempAcc]

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle, so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v

Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

[Teneb]

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

[Loud Whispers]

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

Yeah, that bit of what TempAcc said can be pretty universal
This bit isn't

so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v
Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

What's different is that this generation decided it won't have kids and will instead just replace itself with migrants, gotta find someone to pay for them pensions right? Well, other than migrants being a net loss in taxes, so future generations of both are going to be double screwed lmao, they are going to hate this generation with a vengeance
Assuming we don't fuck up with one of the world-ending scenarios
Reminds me of when I read a hilarious science paper from the 70s warning of how if they did not act then, future generations would live in a world where there was irreparable damage. Something weird about how individually most of us would be more than willing to sacrifice for the future, but overall whole populations would rather not. Maybe there is something to enlightened bureaucracy in the EU after all, if only the EU bureaucracy didn't just want to postpone facing crises for future generations to deal with lol

[Dorsidwarf]

So, uh, what is the "current generation" you love to bash, LW? 80s kids? 90s kids?

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

[TempAcc]

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

Yeah, that bit of what TempAcc said can be pretty universal
This bit isn't

so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v
Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

What's different is that this generation decided it won't have kids and will instead just replace itself with migrants, gotta find someone to pay for them pensions right? Well, other than migrants being a net loss in taxes, so future generations of both are going to be double screwed lmao, they are going to hate this generation with a vengeance
Assuming we don't fuck up with one of the world-ending scenarios
Reminds me of when I read a hilarious science paper from the 70s warning of how if they did not act then, future generations would live in a world where there was irreparable damage. Something weird about how individually most of us would be more than willing to sacrifice for the future, but overall whole populations would rather not. Maybe there is something to enlightened bureaucracy in the EU after all, if only the EU bureaucracy didn't just want to postpone facing crises for future generations to deal with lol

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

Having a national identity is basically asking to get called a nazi (or a hooligan) nowadays, depending on where you are, and most of those places are in yurop. Like, I get it, nazi germany fucking sucked, but get over it, jeez.

@dorsidwarf

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

[Dorsidwarf]

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

[Loud Whispers]

Current generation, current year obv

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

Atomized novelty seekers who live alone, will die alone, then their people die with them
They will then be replaced by those who value family, who build for the future - rather than consume for the present. Millions of people whose wants and desires are for themselves, for they will have no children and have zero obligations to the future. Thus they can take everything in the present and it doesn't matter, once they die that's it. Why should they care for anything but themself?

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

If this is true, if Germany wanted a population boom to pay for their pensions, all they'd have to do is ban contraception for 20 years, instant population boom.
That they didn't suggests it is not true, and has much more to do with Yuros living for themselves as individuals, having dismantled the very notion of a familial unit as various taboo, their very heritage as worthless and the seeking of pleasurable experience of highest importance

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

For as long as man has had culture, kinship, tradition, custom and religion, man has tried to preserve it and learn from it. Up until now really. It is altogether fascinating why so many across Europe have divorced themselves from their past, their future, and are more than happy to live as #YOLO with no regards as to the consequences of their lives

Pretty damn anomalous really, since Biblical times of warring tribes, of Roman attempts to master the loyalty of so many different peoples, to Confucian regulation on family units, to the ancient Greeks on how the family is the root of the state - it seems to be quite common sense. Children learn from their parents their wisdom and their ways, and in turn pass this down to their children, and this goes on and on ad infinitum until each line goes extinct. That a whole continent learned from their education to instead live and die as a sole man who is of no people, of no family, of no history - is pretty damn spectacular
Historical eunuchs and celibates have shown more interest in preserving their collective stuff

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I've got a joke related to this

A man from India sends an online application to an intern in England for an online degree. He writes his application and sends it off with an apology:
"My sincere apologies for my English, I am not an native speaker."
The man from India gets this reply:
"alryt brud no worrese yh."

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

In London we have a lot of Tamils, and they've got a cool naming system where the child takes the first name of their father as their surname, so every generation has a new surname. They have far more interest in continuing their lines than Euros, far more interested in founding families than Euros, and they don't even have that family name thing to carry on

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

It is sorta sobering to see this gen's politicians saying just live with terrorism, quite symptomatic of the casual disregard of decisions that will define civilization lol

Also cos silly Sardinian chanting was mentioned, I think it's worth mentioning a neat top sekrit about their genetics, and what they share in common with modern Zoroastrians
On the nile end of the fertile crescent and the iranian end of the fertile crescent, the humans there diverged genetically 46,000 and 77,000 years ago, making them even more diverse than originally anticipated

The DNA of the Zagros mountains farmers most closely resembled that of living people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran - and Iranian Zoroastrians in particular. Zoroastrians are the people who practise an ancient pre-Islamic religion of present-day Iran.
The present-day population whose genomes most closely resemble those of the western farmers is found not in the Middle East, but on the Italian island of Sardinia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36788165

Tfw Zoroastrians have endured events which ended their civilizations multiple times under persecution which has lasted millennia to this day and are still preserving their ways fiercer than Euros did in prosperity
Also swear down if you mugs kill the Sardinians I'm gonna be saltier than the dead sea xD

[Sheb]

I don't get what you're trying to mean. I was just pointing out that the Nice attacker killed a disproportionate number of Muslims compared to their proportion in the French population at large. I really have no clue what your point is with killing French kids?

You said the killer was killing infidels really inefficiently, I contend this notion

I said he was de-Muslimifying France. 

Yeah, actually you're right, pretty terrible phrasing. Force us to considers their claim if they show up and to not send them to dangerous countries. (Like that Greek judicial decision right after the Turkey deal).

They're basically a giant peer pressure group, really effective until you get the peeps who don't give af

Yup, you just describe international law.

As for Austria and Hungary, well, yes. The EU has no police force, no military, no border agency (Frontex is more of a coordination agency). IIRC, decision on immigration also need unanimity on the Council, so Europe was pretty much paralyzed since no one could agree on what to do.

*Police force = Europol
*Military = Eufor
*Border agency = Frontex
*National borders = Schengen'd and schlonged out of existence
*Decision on immigration decided by Merkel with the Council disagreeing anyways
Europe was paralyzed cos it was a stupid idea to begin with that literally gambled on Yuros being dragged into something they never asked for until it got so bad no one could stop it if they wanted to reverse it - that's dumb

Europol and Frontex are coordinating agencies, that don't have the right to deploy and fight crime/immigration directly and have a combined staff of 1284. Eufor isn't an organization, but the name given to joint military missions. Merkel decided to grant asylum to Syrians.

Meanwile, the Austrian federal police number 20,000, for a much smaller stretch of border. So yeah, Austria is more Powerful than the EU.


Although apparently I was wrong on the unanimity for the council, at least for the refugee quota thing.

Also lol, remember when the 2015 estimate was 1,500,000
It was actually 2,140,000
And that's from the Krauts own federal stat bureau; I'd bet many pennies they've not broken trend and it's still conservative xD
If that stat wasn't including refugees = Berlin quota btfo

I skipped that whole part, because the first link I clicked was that one. Are you even trying? This number is for all migration, including EU migration. For someone who complains about "one-size fit all" policy, you have no qualms about mixing everything.

It said around 45 percent of the 2.14 million immigrants who arrived in Germany last year were citizens of other European Union countries, 13 percent were from non-EU European countries, and 30 percent were from Asia, mainly from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. Five percent were from Africa.

[DJ]

I guess early 20s is the magical age for popping out babies, and if you pass that you're a lot less inclined to start a family. And the age at which people get secure jobs and their own place has moved well into 30s. So yeah, people aren't having kids because they can't afford to have kids.

[martinuzz]

Erdogan hassed passed an emergency decree ordering any and all university professors to not leave the country. Intellectuals are not allowed to escape.
Also, 21000 teachers have been fired from private education facilities..


Erdogan announced that the Turkish Security Council will meet today, and that afterwards, he will have "an important message for the Turkish nation".
He refused to comment any further about what that would be.

Also, wikileaks has been blocked in Turkey, after they released 100s of thousands of documents regarding the AK party.

[MarcAFK]

Passing the 70'000 Mark for purged soon, btw I already read that before you edited, I didn't think edits reset the new replies, but I guess I was wrong.