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[scriver]

It does on the ordinary boards, but not in the new responses/posts groups.

[MarcAFK]

Aha! That explains things.

[Grim Portent]

I guess early 20s is the magical age for popping out babies, and if you pass that you're a lot less inclined to start a family. And the age at which people get secure jobs and their own place has moved well into 30s. So yeah, people aren't having kids because they can't afford to have kids.

Probably doesn't help that most of the infrastructure required to support families has been eroded or neglected across much of Europe for the past couple of decades. In the UK at least schools are already overcrowded and affordable housing, especially houses large enough for parents with kids, is in limited supply. There's also large amounts of financial obstacles to safely and properly rearing children for a lot of people since a lot of people are sliding further and further towards the poverty line. I doubt people without children who talk to the ones who do have them like the idea of bringing up a child in circumstances where just getting them into a half decent school is difficult.

Though I do recall reading that biologically the best time to have children is in the mid to late thirties, as there's less chance of the baby being unhealthy when born for some reason.

[martinuzz]

What I understand, risk at birth defects like Down Syndrome starts increasing at around age 30.

[DJ]

Dunno about biological side of it, but psychologically I reckon you're a LOT more likely to do it if you don't realize yet just what you're getting yourself into.

But then again teen pregnancies are on the rise, so they may save us.

[Orange Wizard]

But then again teen pregnancies are on the rise

Are they?

[DJ]

Dunno, conservatives claim that all the time. At the very least we have TV shows that encourage teen pregnancy, like 16 and Pregnant.

[Orange Wizard]

True

Gotta love their logic though. Teen pregnancy? Stop birth control!

[Grim Portent]

What I understand, risk at birth defects like Down Syndrome starts increasing at around age 30.

I read that the overall risk of complications is lowest around age 35 several years ago, though I'm looking through some articles on the matter atm and it looks like the ideal point is probably in the late 20s, the genes are still fresh and the body is more developed than it was in the late teens or early 20s and should be able to deal with childbirth better. A big part of why doctors seem to feel the mid to late 30s isn't great is because it's harder to concieve, which is honestly a pretty crap reason.

At the same time the risks of complications/defects in childbirth at most ages are pretty low anyway, so with access to decent medical care it doesn't make much difference what age women choose to have kids.


Amusingly enough from what I can find it looks like there's more risk of genetic complications in kids as a result of having an older father than having an older mother. Which I suppose makes sense since egg cells are basically finished and in storage from an early age while sperm cells are produced regularly and the more cell division takes place the more DNA errors will exist in the resulting cells.

[martinuzz]

Dutch police made a breakthrough in their fight against organised crime.
Their IT experts have managed to crack the PGP service which enabled people to have secure telephone conversations on their computers, or blackberries using speech compression and advanced cryptology.

The police have already found incriminating conversations between key suspects in heavy crime investigations.
In one example conversation, the suspect asked "Why didn't you burn the car in the garage? Why didn't you torch it? Can't they find fingerprints and DNA in it?"

[Loud Whispers]

Turkey’s controversial President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sparked mockery and condemnation by defending new powers he wants to give himself as being similar to Adolf Hitler’s.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[martinuzz]

In Brussels, there's a major operation going on by police and security services. The Muntplein in Brussels and the surrounding area have been cordoned off.
It is unclear what is happening. On social media pictures can be found of the bomb squad arriving, and of the police holding a man at gunpoint.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551

http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/199840-politieactie-door-verdacht-persoon

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

Current generation, current year obv

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

Atomized novelty seekers who live alone, will die alone, then their people die with them
They will then be replaced by those who value family, who build for the future - rather than consume for the present. Millions of people whose wants and desires are for themselves, for they will have no children and have zero obligations to the future. Thus they can take everything in the present and it doesn't matter, once they die that's it. Why should they care for anything but themself?

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

If this is true, if Germany wanted a population boom to pay for their pensions, all they'd have to do is ban contraception for 20 years, instant population boom.
That they didn't suggests it is not true, and has much more to do with Yuros living for themselves as individuals, having dismantled the very notion of a familial unit as various taboo, their very heritage as worthless and the seeking of pleasurable experience of highest importance

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

For as long as man has had culture, kinship, tradition, custom and religion, man has tried to preserve it and learn from it. Up until now really. It is altogether fascinating why so many across Europe have divorced themselves from their past, their future, and are more than happy to live as #YOLO with no regards as to the consequences of their lives

Pretty damn anomalous really, since Biblical times of warring tribes, of Roman attempts to master the loyalty of so many different peoples, to Confucian regulation on family units, to the ancient Greeks on how the family is the root of the state - it seems to be quite common sense. Children learn from their parents their wisdom and their ways, and in turn pass this down to their children, and this goes on and on ad infinitum until each line goes extinct. That a whole continent learned from their education to instead live and die as a sole man who is of no people, of no family, of no history - is pretty damn spectacular
Historical eunuchs and celibates have shown more interest in preserving their collective stuff

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I've got a joke related to this

A man from India sends an online application to an intern in England for an online degree. He writes his application and sends it off with an apology:
"My sincere apologies for my English, I am not an native speaker."
The man from India gets this reply:
"alryt brud no worrese yh."

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

In London we have a lot of Tamils, and they've got a cool naming system where the child takes the first name of their father as their surname, so every generation has a new surname. They have far more interest in continuing their lines than Euros, far more interested in founding families than Euros, and they don't even have that family name thing to carry on

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

It is sorta sobering to see this gen's politicians saying just live with terrorism, quite symptomatic of the casual disregard of decisions that will define civilization lol

Also cos silly Sardinian chanting was mentioned, I think it's worth mentioning a neat top sekrit about their genetics, and what they share in common with modern Zoroastrians
On the nile end of the fertile crescent and the iranian end of the fertile crescent, the humans there diverged genetically 46,000 and 77,000 years ago, making them even more diverse than originally anticipated

The DNA of the Zagros mountains farmers most closely resembled that of living people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran - and Iranian Zoroastrians in particular. Zoroastrians are the people who practise an ancient pre-Islamic religion of present-day Iran.
The present-day population whose genomes most closely resemble those of the western farmers is found not in the Middle East, but on the Italian island of Sardinia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36788165

Tfw Zoroastrians have endured events which ended their civilizations multiple times under persecution which has lasted millennia to this day and are still preserving their ways fiercer than Euros did in prosperity
Also swear down if you mugs kill the Sardinians I'm gonna be saltier than the dead sea xD

Thanks for raising the alarm about population decline. I wish people weren't afraid of strangers.

[Sheb]

In Brussels, there's a major operation going on by police and security services. The Muntplein in Brussels and the surrounding area have been cordoned off.
It is unclear what is happening. On social media pictures can be found of the bomb squad arriving, and of the police holding a man at gunpoint.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551

http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/199840-politieactie-door-verdacht-persoon

Radio report "Someone seen with wires sticking out of his jacket". It's National Day tomorrow, and the Muntplein is right next to the Royal Palace where all the parading is planned, so everyone is pretty nervous.

[martinuzz]

Looks like it's a stalemate for now. Police have a gun on the man, special forces are lying on the ground with drawn weapons, but they will not approach the man until a specialized bomb unit arrives.

Don't they have dartguns with elephant tranquilizer?