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[fillipk]

Day has been extended, it now ends on Thursday November 12th at 1:30 PST. There are no more extends remaining.

[Megggas]

While I was rereading the OP, I noticed that the scum IC is actually Jack A T, not Persus13 like I previously thought.  I'm not sure how I made such a stupid mistake (or why no one bothered correcting me  ).  All that stuff I mentioned 70 posts ago about the kind of advice that the scum are receiving is probably not as useful as I thought.  I've looked around for games where Jack A T has been a scum IC, but I haven't found any.  The only relevant comment I noticed him making recently was in the Day 2 post of BM LVI, which he hosted.

I'll make some comments on play and such tomorrow, but one thing I'd like to bring up quickly: I would honestly consider bussing D1 as scum in this setup, with the meta as it is.  Due to the huge amount of damage losing scum D1 does to the team, we've gone so strongly against it that when town hits scum D1, they can safely declare the main attackers clear, as basically happened here.  The risk is high, but the potential reward for bussing is huge.

It certainly wouldn't be standard practice, but as a gambit, with a bit of luck, I could see it working well once.

So, he's open to the idea of bussing and gambits.  But other than that, I've come up dry and I don't know what kind of advice he could be giving to the scum.  He seems to have an enormous amount of experience playing mafia, so he's probably been very helpful to them.


TheDarkStar, you still haven't answered some of my questions:

ATH is giving off a town vibe to me and he's the only one claiming cop. There's still a chance that he's lying and that we only have a jailor, but scum generally don't draw attention to themselves Day 1.

I voted for roo because, while he might have been scum defending his ally, he was also acting like scum trying to push a lynch on someone.

Why mention the fact that roo never made an outright claim if it was implied heavily enough that multiple people asked him about it?

Roo would have voted for ATH if he (roo) was the cop but not if he (roo) was scum. If ATH got lynched and flipped cop, then roo would have been the next lynch; if ATH flipped scum, roo would have been confirmed as cop. Roo's hesitancy to vote for someone he apparently knew to be scum was the main reason that I voted for him.

In your first post of Day 1, you asked Roo why he thought ATH was scum, but it was only a few posts earlier where Roo had declared ATH a troll and unvoted him.  Later, Roo posted a bunch of town reads and a null read on the "troll".  I understand how Roo's hesitancy was suspicious, but how was Roo trying to push a lynch on someone?  Why did you think at the time of your first post that Roo considered ATH to be scum?

Also, would you care to list the reasons for your suspicions and town reads?

[TolyK]

I don't agree with TolyK.  I think the evidence he specified against you points more toward you being a bad town player then a good scum player.   If you're scum, it doesn't make much sense for you to draw additional suspicion by haphazardly going back and forth on your investigation results, especially all within a span of about 28 minutes. 

No, I believe that was a genuine mess-up, like the rolecop/cop mess-up. It's just that he forgot who he supposedly inspected, in my theory.

TolyK ... can be hard to get a read on.  And despite being a veteran player he can still manage to get lynched D1  >_>

Yes indeed. Though when I live through several days, I seem to win. Let's hope that trend continues.

PFP.

[hector13]

Hector13, why were you trying to encourage origamiscienceguy to vote with you?  At the time, NJW2000 had 2 votes, while you and ATH had only 1 vote each.  Origamiscienceguy had already unvoted ATH earlier and only placed a FOS against him.

A fairly obvious response in that I think NJW is the scummiest. I can't lynch him on my own, so others need to get their votes on him.

OSG was talking about voting ATH, I said he shouldn't do that because NJW is more scummy. Now he's voting me for trying to get him to vote for the person I think is most scummy *shrugs* can't help if he scumreads that.

[Shakerag]

Hector13:

2. Hypocrisy. NJW is indulging in all the scumtells he's applied to Hector, namely not scumhunting properly.

[Oh, this again.  Hypocrisy is not a scumtell (towards bottom of post).]

Still re-reading.  Just had to comment on something that stood out to me.

[NJW2000]

Hector13, why were you trying to encourage origamiscienceguy to vote with you?  At the time, NJW2000 had 2 votes, while you and ATH had only 1 vote each.  Origamiscienceguy had already unvoted ATH earlier and only placed a FOS against him.

A fairly obvious response in that I think NJW is the scummiest. I can't lynch him on my own, so others need to get their votes on him.

OSG was talking about voting ATH, I said he shouldn't do that because NJW is more scummy. Now he's voting me for trying to get him to vote for the person I think is most scummy *shrugs* can't help if he scumreads that.

((I think most people have actually read the clear and footnoted arguments you presented, they may just trust their own reads more. Remember, anything a townie reads is automatically discredited by the (varying) ~30% chance that they're scum, the only ones who trust others not to have an ulterior motive are scum. Not saying OSG's confirmed town, obvs))

[hector13]

Hector13:

2. Hypocrisy. NJW is indulging in all the scumtells he's applied to Hector, namely not scumhunting properly.

[Oh, this again.  Hypocrisy is not a scumtell (towards bottom of post).]

Still re-reading.  Just had to comment on something that stood out to me.

Do you just have a bank of quotes at the ready to make the inexperienced players feel bad about themselves?

Okay then. My points against NJW now stand at tunnel vision and active lurking. Still think he's scum

((I think most people have actually read the clear and footnoted arguments you presented, they may just trust their own reads more. Remember, anything a townie reads is automatically discredited by the (varying) ~30% chance that they're scum, the only ones who trust others not to have an ulterior motive are scum. Not saying OSG's confirmed town, obvs))

Curious why you're doing OOC-esque posts in mafia

Can't be sure if people have read my ridiculously large analysis of your posts. Heck, even when I'm going through it I don't read it properly. Suggesting that everyone has read it is foolish, though, since the people who haven't read it will assume they don't have to. And that could be everybody who is not me or you.

[hector13]

Hm, that is an interesting point.  What's your opinion on the Day 1 play of hector13?  If hector13 is scum, who do you think might be his partner?  You said that hector13 was throwing about random scumtells rather actual arguments against NJW2000.  Could you give some specific examples of this?

I would also like OSG to answer these questions from Megas, when he has the time.

[Megggas]

I don't agree with TolyK.  I think the evidence he specified against you points more toward you being a bad town player then a good scum player.   If you're scum, it doesn't make much sense for you to draw additional suspicion by haphazardly going back and forth on your investigation results, especially all within a span of about 28 minutes. 

No, I believe that was a genuine mess-up, like the rolecop/cop mess-up. It's just that he forgot who he supposedly inspected, in my theory.

What about his switch from no-investigation-result to got-his-pm-late?  Do you think that was another genuine mess-up or part of some kind of scum plan?

hector13:  Now that you've done a post-by-post analysis of NJW2000, do you have any suspicions of who his scum buddy could be?

AbstractTraitorHero:  You said earlier that you were suspicious of both hector13 and NJW2000.  Now that they've had their little debate with eachother, what are your thoughts on them?

[AbstractTraitorHero]

I don't agree with TolyK.  I think the evidence he specified against you points more toward you being a bad town player then a good scum player.   If you're scum, it doesn't make much sense for you to draw additional suspicion by haphazardly going back and forth on your investigation results, especially all within a span of about 28 minutes. 

No, I believe that was a genuine mess-up, like the rolecop/cop mess-up. It's just that he forgot who he supposedly inspected, in my theory.

What about his switch from no-investigation-result to got-his-pm-late?  Do you think that was another genuine mess-up or part of some kind of scum plan?

hector13:  Now that you've done a post-by-post analysis of NJW2000, do you have any suspicions of who his scum buddy could be?

AbstractTraitorHero:  You said earlier that you were suspicious of both hector13 and NJW2000.  Now that they've had their little debate with eachother, what are your thoughts on them?

the problem here is that i have 2 people who are both suspicious to me and I've been rereading the thread and i can't reach any conclusion about either of them besides their both suspicious i only have until the end of today or the very early morning tommorow to vote so i suggest njw and hector convince me the other is scum or I'll just use random org to choose between hector13 or njw2000

[NJW2000]

Convice you? We've stated our arguments, but I suggest that looking through Hector's recent attack on me for misconstruing/blatant lying in the footnotes would be a good place to start.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Convice you? We've stated our arguments, but I suggest that looking through Hector's recent attack on me for misconstruing/blatant lying in the footnotes would be a good place to start.

I've read it I'm still not convinced of anything yet. I'm still suspicious of both of you neither of your arguments or posts have convinced me the other person is the scum.

[origamiscienceguy]

I am indifferent to the great hector-NJW debate. My reason for voting hector is that he was trying to get me on to his wagon quite relentlessly. While throwing around scumtells that I do not see myself.

[NJW2000]

Would try, but bed now.

*Yawns*

[hector13]

I am indifferent to the great hector-NJW debate. My reason for voting hector is that he was trying to get me on to his wagon quite relentlessly. While throwing around scumtells that I do not see myself.

I would hardly consider one post relentless. I said NJW was scummier than ATH, who you were voting for, so you should vote for him instead. I'm not exactly being surreptitious in my scumread of NJW, you know?

I would suggest to ATH that using random.org is perhaps not the best idea, but yeah, it seems that either NJW or myself is going to get lynched. Perhaps you should all consider our play outside of the interaction we had? Neither of us can offer an unbiased opinion on that, after all.

hector13:  Now that you've done a post-by-post analysis of NJW2000, do you have any suspicions of who his scum buddy could be?

In no particular order:

TDS hasn't done much for the game, but could just be busy RL. Did a bit of a chainsaw on me earlier, against NJW, so that throws me off a bit.

ATH has claimed cop, but hasn't done much beyond get confused over roles and who he investigated N1. If NJW hadn't jumped out as scummy to me, I'd be voting for him.

OSG is also misrepresenting (I'm "relentless" and apparently not offering counterarguments) me quite hard, which doesn't sit well with me; he missed a fairly salient point when he voted ATH earlier, which shouldn't have been too hard to see.

Anyway, NJW hasn't done anything before or after our significant interaction, so I'm still most sure of him being part of the scum team.