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[Andres]

If the pistol do get through, why don't we ask for hollow point bullets? They're the same used by our SMG, so we at least get something useful. And we need all the stopping power we have.

I'm against it because it's immoral and impractical. Everyone else is against it because it's impractical. Their armour would be enough to stop hollow point rounds by virtue of their being made of steel.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[10ebbor10]

Morality is really no issue. We're using shrapnel, fragmentation grenades, bombing, land mines, and a whole lot of other stuff here. Hollow points have greater stopping power, sure.

And you know, hollow point is nowhere near as bad against armor as you want to make us believe. In fact, against light armor it's likely better as the rounds deformation prevents it from being deflected.

[Sheb]

Everyone else being who exactly? Also, since when is shooting someone immoral?

Anyway, since it seems you guys want to spend the revision on the pistol, we might as well have a good-looking proposal.

Spoiler: AS-SP30 (click to show/hide)

A modified AS-1909, renamed to raise the morale of our troops. After all, everyone prefer to be issued a brand-new, cutting edge weapons rather than a slightly improved 20 years old handgun. Or at least that MinInfo theory.

Using the experience of the civilian shooting clubs, our engineers have solved the reliability issue of the AS-1909, and designed a new Hollow Point round to give it more punch. Better barrel manufacturing technique also increase its accuracy somewhat.

I don't really see the point of using an inferior metal (aluminium) to shave a few grams from our handgun. Better to stick with what we have.

[Andres]

And you know, hollow point is nowhere near as bad against armor as you want to make us believe. In fact, against light armor it's likely better as the rounds deformation prevents it from being deflected.

"As much I want to make you believe?" I'm not trying to trick you guys or anything. I was told that hollow points don't work against armour from someone who used to go to a gun club. I'm not trying to be deceptive or anything. Whether their armour can be considered light or not is up for debate, though. How light could steel be, exactly?

[andrea]

fighter:            Kot
ammunition:     ebbor, Sheb,Andrea
ghillie suit:      Andres(1)
pistol:            tryrar, quake, VoidSlayer,Andres(3)

throwing my vote to ammunition. However, pistol revision is Andres's tertiary vote and since neither of his 2 other votes are winning,I suppose that goes to the pistol as well...

do we really need a pistol? let our men throw punches or something.

[Sheb]

10ebbor10, are you willing to write the ammo proposal?

Andres what are your votes exactly?

[Funk]

fighter:            Kot
ammunition:     ebbor, Sheb,Andrea
ghillie suit:      Andres(1)
pistol:            tryrar, quake, VoidSlayer,Andres(3),Funk

+1 to the Pistol.
Just makeing sure my vote get counted.

[10ebbor10]

So, another ammo proposal.

Ammo Revision

Advanced HEAT : An improved Heat shell with a relatively strong metal aerodynamic cap. Intended to fly straight foremost, and defeat armor secondly.
HEFI-T : A specialist autocannon round. High explosive fragmentory incendairy explosive
Fuzed APHE : An armor piercing high explosive round. Has less penetration than normal AP rounds, but explodes inside the enemy vehicle.
AS-2T : A 2 ton bomb for blowing up stuff.

[andrea]

that bomb, made for our bomber... lovely, just lovely.
frag/incendiary autocannon round seems great for our autocannon bases air combat.

I vote for that, but sadly we are still outnumbered 5 to 3. for the tiny handgun.

I want my 2 ton bomb, not a 200 grams handgun! ( numbers for the handgun compeltely made up)

[Kot]

Woah, woah, woaaaah!
I'm away for 12 hours and suddenly you're fixing the pistol... well, uh, whatever. It's not like that we can ignore the thing forever... okay, primary vote for the ammunition, secondary for the pistol but we should also try and make a suppresor to it.

[andrea]

sure, we can ignore it. We were ignoring it happily until it got briefly named on a cmmand report for the first time in a decade.

[tryrar]

Ahem, I'd like to bring up something Sensei brought up:

Yeah, which really sucks for that 4 times a years when a soldier have to use its pistols. Pistols weren't even issued to most infantrymen in WWII, and all the troops which need a sidearm (Artillerymen, pilots, snipers...) can just grab a AS-MC16A.

We should just obsolete that pistol.

Yeah, an SMG isn't small enough to be a sidearm unless it's the size of an Uzi...which the MC16A ISN'T.

I should post this in the main thread as well, this has been my logic for soldier equipment.

A typical soldier has a primary weapon (EG rifle), a sidearm, and whatever equipment seems reasonable (spare ammo, grenades, binoculars and such are all examples of miscellaneous equipment). The AS-MC16 is a primary weapon, using it deprives a soldier of any other rifle. Soldiers who carry machine guns, the bulky radios currently in use by both nations, and things like that are also deprived of a primary weapon and forced to rely on their sidearm. In close combat, soldiers who have a long rifle or other unsuitable gun (the MC16 is of course suitable for close combat) will use their sidearms, and sometimes have to use their sidearms instead of reloading.

So, a sidearm that actually functions is kinda actually important. So let's use this opportunity to fix it and never have to worry again.

[andrea]

I will note that in places where most cqc occurs, many soldiers will have the SMG, protecting those who don't. And only because something is good, it doesn't mean that something else isn't better. I'll be very surprised if the handgun gets featured significantly in the next reports. I think it will just be a small mention that we have it and little more.  I really hope to be wrong since we are blowing a revision on it.

How often has their superior hangun been mentioned in combat reports since we introduced SMG?

[Sheb]

Ok, I've done two versions of the Ammo revision proposal, since it seems to me that better RPG rocket performance and better shells are two different type of revision.

Spoiler: AS-RPG28-B (click to show/hide)

The rockets are modified to allow for greater range and precision. The shaft is made a bit longer to store more propellant, and the warhead are made in a new, more aerodynamic shape. In addition, a new tandem HEAT warhead is developed to go through the Moskurg slat and spaced armor.

Spoiler: Shells (click to show/hide)

New shell types are introduced for our cannons:
HEFI-T : A specialist autocannon round. High explosive fragmentory incendairy explosive, intended for anti-air use.
Fuzed APHE : An armor piercing high explosive round. Has less penetration than normal AP rounds, but explodes inside the enemy vehicle, making it more effective against lightly armored targets.
APCBC: Armor-piercing, Capped, Ballistic Cap: A AP shell with a cap of softer metal, intended "stick" to the armor and stopping the shot from glancing on sloped armor.

[VoidSlayer]

I want that new pistol, but those RPG redesigns are so nice.