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[SOLDIER First]

Ah, the classic "Skyrim's plot sucks so I will brazenly deny its existence" routine. Bravo, Neon.

[Neonivek]

Ah, the classic "Skyrim's plot sucks so I will brazenly deny its existence" routine. Bravo, Neon.

No that is definitely not what I was getting at.

But I'll give you a clue: "Main Quest"... Notice a problem there when referring to Skyrim a game I assume you played?

Also why harp on me when BlackFlyme actually DID say that?

[Draignean]

Ah, the classic "Skyrim's plot sucks so I will brazenly deny its existence" routine. Bravo, Neon.

To be fair, Skyrim doesn't so much have a main quest as it does a primary side quest. Aside from a couple of milestones, there really isn't a feeling that Alduin is actually up to terribly much while you're off suplexing necrophiles in ice caves and stabbing trees with knives. They only up the ante until you get done with Whiterun's part, and then things pretty much just... stick. No one seems to be particularly endangered, no cities get kvatch'ed, it's just business as usual + dragons.

You get a similar thing with Fallout 4, where things seem to be kicking off when the BoS shows up in their party boat, but then the world has to sort of hang around and wait for the player to get done rescuing micro-breweries in order for anything to happen so that the player doesn't feel left out when the world does something without them.

It's a problem endemic to the genre. The main quest of a true open-world game is typically some static thing that really doesn't get worse over time. The big bad sits threateningly on the horizon, politely waiting until the hero is good and ready to stop it.

Honestly, the revolution in Skyrim is better set up as the main questline. The player gets little reminders of that constantly, and they have a chance to make a choice and permanently alter the allegiance of a region the shirt color of a region via their interaction and fame. Alduin kind of gets sidelined when every person and their dog has an opinion about the revolution, but will barely mention dragons.

[Krevsin]

It's a problem endemic to the genre. The main quest of a true open-world game is typically some static thing that really doesn't get worse over time. The big bad sits threateningly on the horizon, politely waiting until the hero is good and ready to stop it.

Pretty much, sticking a conventional "Oh No The Big Bad Is Coming To Kill Us All" story into an open world game is a recipe for failure. These types of games are much better at telling stories about situations that are tense but not immediately threatening. A nation simmering with revolt and instability into which the player is thrown, with their actions bringing it ever closer to the boiling point. Morrowind did this quite well for the most part, as did Dragon Age Inquisition IMO.

Quests that are all about urgency and such do not gel well with this type of game and should as such be avoided if possible. Plots that are all about urgency and such just don't tend to work well at all.

[Iceblaster]

Honestly, I in this case, maybe having the dragons show up later in the main quest instead of out of the gate would've worked if you changed around the opening. While there's still rumors of dragons, there's no real 'oh shit' moments yet because the world eating dragon god has yet to show up.

[Edmus]

Mass Effect 3 was much the same, I feel.
Oh noes the Reapers are murderising everything, but make sure to fly across the entire galaxy and back to complete that side quest!

[BlackFlyme]

Also why harp on me when BlackFlyme actually DID say that?

Que? I'm talking about backstories, not the plot. We never had any backstories beyond "prisoner" in most Elder Scrolls games, so our characters were blank slates, whose background had no bearing on the story.

[Krevsin]

Mass Effect 3 is a different style RPG tho. The timescales are much more compressed (no day and night cycle and easily visible passage of time apart from story missions) and belief can as such be more easily suspended. Pure open world RPGs such as Witcher 3, Bethesda games or Far Cry or GTA (not RPGs tho a similar principle applies) have a much harder time of it because you can actually see the sun rising and setting down for 1371 times since the Jarl of Placetown told you to urgently come save his city which is very much on fire and under dragon attack.

[Jimmy]

Is he there from the beginning of the game, or is there a certain point in the story where he shows up?

He's present in person disguised as Diamond City Security during the fight between Piper and Mayor McDonough.
He's seen impersonating a caravan worker in Bunker Hill.
He's seen in Goodneighbour as a drifter, shows up during Hancock's speech, and also shows up inside one of the pods in the memory den.

There's also a fan theory that he's been watching you ever since you emerged from Vault 111. This is based on the Railroad watchpost west of the vault entrance, pictured here. Of course PAM calls you an unexpected variable, so that theory's somewhat shaky.

[Rolan7]

I think Neo's hinting about the civil war questline as if it's equally important, and thus Skyrim has no one main plot?
Though I disagree, I think the world-ending dragon thing is clearly the main quest.  The civil war is a pretty big deal I guess, but not obviously apocalyptic, and it's also completely optional to even begin.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I'm pretty sure the world ending apocalypse might be more important than a civil war, that I think gets resolved by the greybeards during the main story line anyway.

[Persus13]

Not really, the Civil War just has a truce for a short period.

[wierd]

I think Neo's hinting about the civil war questline as if it's equally important, and thus Skyrim has no one main plot?
Though I disagree, I think the world-ending dragon thing is clearly the main quest.  The civil war is a pretty big deal I guess, but not obviously apocalyptic, and it's also completely optional to even begin.

From a lore perspective, the ultimate goals of the Admeri Dominion (the major causative factor behind the civil war, aside from ulfric being a megalomaniac) are very much "End of the world" in scope.

The aldmeri dominion intends to mythically re-write the world, by removing Talos, and all instances or references to the human races on tamriel, in much the same way the Marukhati Selectives reforged the personifications of the divines when they "danced on the tower."

Considering that "the world", Mundus, the mortal plane, was created by the entity responsible for the creation of the mortal races (Lorkhan, the trickster-- Aka, Shor, and other names) men being among his most prized creations, and playing an essential role just by existing in sustaining the mythotecture of the TES universe, the goals of the Aldmeri Dominion are very much to "End the world", so they can create a new one that they like better. (Much the same kind of plan that Dagoth Ur had in Morrowind.) Hints about the long-feud between humans and elves can be picked up casually by listening to the last remaining falmer guarding the old temple complex of auri-el.

Remember, the TES universe is not as.... rigidly grounded.... on mundane principles as ours.  It is based on myth and magic. The aldmeri dominion is using mythic deletion to re-shape the world.

In that respect, the civil war takes on whole new tones.

(It's why I side with the Empire in the civil war, despite the egregious acts they engage in. A unified empire is required to stop the Aldmeri Dominion's sinister ambitions. Divided, tamriel will fall. Deep down, the empire LOATHES the aldmeri dominion, and only works with them by force. Somebody needs to return to HighRock and get the giant stompy robot-- er.. Numidium.. out of the bay, and back into action bootstomping genocidal elves.)

[Rolan7]

Which is why I said it wasn't obviously apocalyptic (;  Thanks for the nice write-up, though!  I honestly don't know where this lore is written, I read the books I find but apparently not enough...

And actually I sided with the Empire for the same general reason!  Skyrim independence seems shortsighted and counterproductive.  Also a bit uncomfortable, given the way most Nords... consider foreigners.

[Jimmy]

Don't you think it's fair to say that the Empire's days are numbered anyhow? They lost. They're a vassal state of the Aldmeri Dominion. Let the Empire crumble and fracture, and with it the White-Gold Concordat. Some might think the Empire could stand a chance of regrouping and pushing back against the Aldmeri Dominion, but not with the hate the White-Gold Concordat creates.

Better to let Skyrim become its own power under Ulfric, freely worshipping Talos. The Greybeards work out the truce, the Empire and the Stormcloaks agree to the terms, Ulfric becomes High King and the Nords happily get on with their lives. If the Thalmor don't like it, let them sacrifice their own soldiers to stop it. If the Empire wins, they have to let the Thalmor continue their efforts to root out Talos worship in Skyrim, and I guarantee you that will continue the Thalmor's goal of setting Imperials against Nords. Better that the Thalmor be cut off in Skyrim from having any influence whatsoever.