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[Rolepgeek]

Well, if no one else is going to join then(at least not yet; with this type of game it's actually really easy to add new vessels to the fleet and have it make sense, though explaining why a super-modern Kai Armored Cruiser/semi-modern Kai Battlecruiser, a Rifter Carrier group, a Galactic League escort squadron, a Coalition Supercruiser, an Octav Gunship(if Cherry is still with us), a Terran Battlecruiser, and a Galactic League Freighter, are in the same merc company(well really the Kai is the only truly odd one out, as the rest can be explained away as mercenaries, rogues, ship thieves, and independents, but Ross knows the Kai far better than I so maybe I'm missing something).

And from the looks of it, we'll be working for the Alliance, too.), I'll start making the remaining ships and hopefully we can get started before it loses too much momentum. After Breakfast with grandparents though, probably. (Also take care of yourself Ross, I might be able to help with the spreadsheet stuff if you want, a lot of it you probably don't need to do; we can do basic math)(though that reminds me; how are we doing costs again? Because the apparent method we're using seems to differ between Missiles and Energy, and even within Missiles itself on those Spreadsheets)(also Fighter sized ships should have like a fifth or a tenth the number of missiles you might normally expect, and count several reloads as being stored on their parent ship; 40 volleys of missiles from a Bomber in one attack run is ridiculous(I think it's 40 volleys?))(PARENTHESES)

In any case, I think Kevak/Cheesecake and Evil Cherry are the only ones who really still need ships, right?

And we're keeping the Admiralty funds for maintenance and rainy days?

Oh, and Ross, question; when calculating costs of carriers, is their fighter wing hull cost already included in their base cost or purchased separately? I'm guessing separate. Also is evasion (as in being small/high accel) going to be much of a thing in this game or are Fighters, Bombers, and Interceptors going to be the death traps they probably would be if they didn't have support/overwhelming numbers?

Finally, question as for how powerful Strength in Numbers is; at what point does a wing of Merope Fighters become more dangerous than an equivalent number of Synthetic Sentient Fighters?

[Ozarck]

He said earlier that the wing complement comes with the ship, for all ships that mention fighters in their part of the spreadsheet.

I could envision a political marriage of convenience in which the mercenary fleet accepts the political outcasts or opportunistic slavers for their usefulness while not fully trusting their motives, and the outcast or slaver using the fleet as a power base / protection while pursuing their own agenda. Mercenary is mercenary, after all

Could someone tell me the specific changes I need to make to my ship in terms of cost / space?

[Ross Vernal]

Yeah, I'd honestly figured I'd have been doing the encounter rolls for every day in hyper space, and be starting the "Increasing Tensions..." plot line by now. I figured it was basically finished aside from a few quiet retcons that would be gradually rolled out, not in the Grand Rebalance.

That idea is why I was suggesting making prebuilt ships for different money levels. Make it easier for new folks and provide more examples for those in NUMBER OVERLOAD OHGODWHY mode.

Evasion is going to be important. The only way some of these big ships can catch the smaller ones is to have a really high base velocity (likely an ambush from Alpha hyper) to overcome the acceleration advantage. And there's risk to that, because if you have a high speed and there's a few ships waiting for you, it's going to be a very rough time. Basically, unless it has enough speed to catch up and start hammering with missiles, the smaller ship is going to hyper the hell out, then drop somewhere in space in stealth mode for a while.

Oh. Of course. It didn't actually copy the stupid formula, it simply took the structure of the formula and applied it. Instead of =Q2 + (Q2*.1/tech level) it went =R2 + (R2 *.1) and so on down the line. I am going to kick this spreadsheet right in its virtual taint. D<

NOW. Missiles. Let me math it up and recalculate.

[Ross Vernal]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The math is more or less "calculate the average percentage of size and damage, then apply something close as the base, round up (mass minus cargo)/percentage." There's a bit more but blah. Countermissile values are 1.1, 1.6, 2.1, and 2.6.


As far as Merope?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

MeropeSame1/+1 -2/+2   -3/ +3
1   0   0   0   0
2   3   1.5   0.75   0.405
3   5   2.5   1.25   0.675
4    7   3.5   1.75   0.945
5   9   4.5   2.25   1.215
6   11   5.5   2.75   1.485
7   13   6.5   3.25   1.755
8   15   7.5   3.75   2.025
9    17   8.5   4.25   2.295
10    19   9.5   4.75   2.565
11   21   10.5   5.25   2.835
12   23   11.5   5.75   3.105
13   25   12.5   6.25   3.375
14   27   13.5   6.75   3.645
15   29   14.5   7.25   3.915
16   31   15.5   7.75   4.185
17   33   16.5   8.25   4.455
18   35   17.5   8.75   4.725
19   37   18.5   9.25   4.995
20   39   19.5   9.75   5.265

Translated? If there are 2 ships, each gets a certain bonus. If it's two ships of the same size, both get a 3% bonus. If they are not, then they get 1.5% each if they are within 1 size category, .75% each for 2, so on.

So, a Merope Parasite Carrier deploys. It has 13 ships total. The 12 Small ships get a bonus of 25% (13 ships) and the 1 Large ship gets a bonus of 3% (13 ships.).
But, two Parasite Carriers give the Small ships a 51% bonus (26 total ship bonus + 2 Large ship bonus_ and the Large ships get a 10% bonus (2 ship bonus + 26 total ship bonus.) So they really, really like to act in swarms.

[Ross Vernal]

Spoiler: Rerebalance (click to show/hide)

OP has been updated, too.

[Rolepgeek]

Interesting...So they'd need somewhere around 40-50 Merope Fighters vs. Synthetic Fighters before they'd be more powerful...seems about right.

[Ozarck]

Okay, I'll rebuild mine and High Tyrel's ship based on the numbers in the current OP.

Is the fighter wing logistics cost separate from the carrier/corvette cost? if so, I will be paying 13 or 15 per month (4 carrier, 1 ea corvette, .5 ea for 14 fighters or 18 if spares  are included.)

[Ross Vernal]

FYI, this is the general inclination of the powers towards one another. The darker the color, the stronger the feeling. Dark grey is "opinion or stance is pretty firmly entrenched" So, a light grey is neutral with opinion subject to change, dark red is basically "ETERNAL HATE", medium green is a solid friendship.

Light reds are not necessarily dislike, mind you. "Cute little robots" is basically condescending friendliness for one, "Dishonorable clanmate" is "We're family, but I don't particularly LIKE  you", "Possible territory" is "a history of armed invasion" for another, so on.

You can figure out alliances from there, I believe. Maybe even get the plot hooks.

[Ozarck]

Ship	Component	Cost	space
P. Carrier		116	110
	Repair lab	55	20.7	medium
	Molylab	55	20.7	medium
	Supplies 1	1.2	4.68	2 months(large)

Corvette		22.32	19.8
	Sensor 1	2	5.4	small
	EW/ECW5	15	6.3	small
	Supplies 1	1	3.6	2 months(small)

Corvette		22.32	19.8
	Sensor 1	2	5.4	small
	EW/ECW5	15	6.3	small
	Supplies 1	1	3.6	2 months(small)

total cost:307.84.
reserve: 12.16

[10ebbor10]

So, anyway, you said the stuff in the OP was templates, right?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Terran Alliance Prototype Battlecruiser:

HP: 384
Captain: Strike Force Commander: Increased critical chance , +5% Accel
Missile:
   - Standard Missile :
         - Damage : 36
         - To hit :
         - 730 missiles
   - Huge Missile :
         - Damage 60
         - To hit : 78
         - Missiles
Countermissile: -10% [1533 countermissiles]
Energy: 0
Sidewall: -10%
Sensors: 10
EW/ECW: 8%
Marine: 500
Accel: 572 [600]
Cost: 149.33

Components :  Size : 43.74 /68

No Medium laser :  +5.2 space, + 41.25 credits  [I assumed that the Standard laser is a Tech 4 laser, based on damage. Probably wrong though]
Huge Missile 1 : -18.54 space, - 39.93 credits
1 Large Sensor 1 : - 7.8 space - 2.4 credits
1 Huge Sensor 1 : - 8.7 space - 2.6 credits
2* Huge ECW 2 : -17.4 space, - 15.6 credits

So, still not entirely sure on how exactly the weaponry works (for example, with multiple missile systems, what happens with the hit rate and charesteristics. Take the best? Average?) What is the to-hit of standard installed weaponry anyway.

So, a Merope Parasite Carrier deploys. It has 13 ships total. The 12 Small ships get a bonus of 25% (13 ships) and the 1 Large ship gets a bonus of 3% (13 ships.).
But, two Parasite Carriers give the Small ships a 51% bonus (26 total ship bonus + 2 Large ship bonus_ and the Large ships get a 10% bonus (2 ship bonus + 26 total ship bonus.) So they really, really like to act in swarms.

I don't want to meet a Merope Supercarrier.

On a side note, it's a percentage bonus to what? Damage, range, hit chance?

[Ross Vernal]

Highest tohit. Multiple missile systems means that you get another set of tubes to fire out of.

25% missile, 60% energy.

Everything but HP, maximum accel and velocity, current missile supply, and Marine capacity.  Damage goes up, range/accuracy, EW, sensors,  etc. Basically, it cannot replenish physical supplies, but does improve performance.

I will double check numbers later on.

[Ross Vernal]

Terran Alliance Prototype Battlecruiser:

HP: 384
Captain: Strike Force Commander: Increased critical chance , +5% Accel
Missile:
   - Large Missile :
         - Damage : 36
         - To hit : 45%
         - 730 missiles
   - Huge Missile :
         - Damage 60
         - To hit : 78%
         - 550 Missiles
Countermissile: -10% [1533 countermissiles]
Energy:
   - Point Defense Clusters
         - Damage : 3
         - To hit : 30%
Sidewall: -10%
Sensors: 10
EW/ECW: 8%
   - Passive Detection Bonus: -24% (-0% Size)
   - Active Targeting Bonus: -80%
   - Mass Faking
         - Max: Battleship
         - Min: Heavy Cruiser
Marine: 1000
Accel: 572 [600]
Cost: 149.33

Components :  Size : 43.74 /68

No Large laser :  +5.2 space, + 41.25 credits
Huge Missile 1 : -18.54 space, - 39.93 credits
1 Large Sensor 1 : - 7.8 space - 2.4 credits
1 Huge Sensor 1 : - 8.7 space - 2.6 credits
2* Huge ECW 2 : -17.4 space, - 15.6 credits

It's actually a Large Standard Laser, but I'll approve this. You should define energy weapons as a 3 at 30%, though, because you *can* use point defense laser clusters as energy weapons. It won't do all that much to a warship, but it's far superior to nothing. (Encounters in hyper do happen, after all.)

I'd normally define missile ammo space as 10% reduction per increase in size, but since you're already carrying a full load of Large missiles I'm going to say (Size-100) - (10% Size), rounded down to the nearest 10 for 550 missiles. For the sake of practicality, I am going to assume that any tube can fire any size missile so you can sustain 20-40 missiles per round.

Either way, that's very definitely not a ship someone wants to fight at missile range. It is going to require some serious EW and sensor capability to have a decent chance of scoring a hit on that ship, or anything in its jamming envelope.

Ship	Component	Cost	space
P. Carrier		116	110
	Repair lab	55	20.7	medium
	Molylab	55	20.7	medium
	Supplies 1	1.2	4.68	2 months(large)

Corvette		22.32	19.8
	Sensor 1	2	5.4	small
	EW/ECW5	15	6.3	small
	Supplies 1	1	3.6	2 months(small)

Corvette		22.32	19.8
	Sensor 1	2	5.4	small
	EW/ECW5	15	6.3	small
	Supplies 1	1	3.6	2 months(small)

total cost:307.84.
reserve: 12.16

Seems right to me!

[Rolepgeek]

How would you say a fight would go between that ship plus the carrier group versus the Supercruiser?

Also, I'll probably design Kevak and Cheesecake's ship as an Assault Cruiser or Battlecruiser.

[~Neri]

Go ahead.

The nuuuumberrrrs.

[Ross Vernal]

How would you say a fight would go between that ship plus the carrier group versus the Supercruiser?

My best guess is that there'd be high fighter casualties, both corvettes would be disabled or destroyed, and the battlecruiser would have a chunk bitten out of it. I'll play with numbers.