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Author Topic: Supernatural 8 - Game over! Town Victory  (Read 68815 times)

Jack A T

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #165 on: June 01, 2015, 10:31:50 am »

Extend.

Peradon: Start of D1 flavour has traditionally not been very informative, though it is not without value.  The rot can just as easily be a reference to rotten, crooked scum as it could be to a spreading cult.  Also, coming up with two scenarios in which Cheesecake is scum and one in which he's town does not make a 2/3 chance he's scum.

birdy51: You're not going to get an answer for a random question out of roo.  It won't happen.  Want to understand him?  Read Vengeful 10.

spruce: A Bay 12 meta note: we're generally quite aggressive.

flabort: Answer question.

I'm most suspicious of Teneb right now.

Let's look at his attack on spruce.  I believe this attack may be more an effort to look active and scumhunty than an effort to hunt scum.  It's slapped together oddly, with unsupported assertions mixed with supportable ones.  Teneb accuses spruce of constantly using nonsense to dodge questions and giving no content, but even in the set of spruce's posts that Teneb included in evidence, there's some content and the blocks of spruce-speak include answers (best example: this one).

Teneb plays up his massive block of quotes as being almost all of spruce's posts to that point.  There were 8 posts in that spoiler, and spruce had 17 posts at that point.  So, Teneb took less than half of spruce's posts, called them almost all of his posts, and attacked him for a lack of content.  Let's look at some of what Teneb omitted, then.  Maybe Teneb just omitted the assorted questions about how the setup works, how the forum works, and such...
Oh look, among the system and forum questions, there was some omitted interesting commentary on the game up to that point, with an emphasis on birdy.  Content.

Now, was spruce doing all that much scumhunting?  Not clearly, not by our standards, though he did have interest in and get information from birdy.  Did he, though, give no content and just run around dodging questions with nonsense?  No.

Teneb's other post is less objectionable, being merely one of the many "Cheesecake did a scumslip" posts.  However, it's interesting to see that in both posts, he went after classic soft targets: a newbie and a forum newcomer.  It's also interesting to note the lack of any questions to anyone but Cheesecake and spruce.  Also interesting to note the way he dropped the Cheesecake point without comment.

Teneb: Please explain.  I'm particularly interested in the reasons for omitting the posts I noted.  Also, why no interest in anyone but spruce and Cheesecake, and why drop the Cheesecake point completely without comment?
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spruce

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #166 on: June 01, 2015, 11:09:53 am »

Yeah, Teneb, you big meanie. Answer the guy with the terrifying avatar.
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spruce

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #167 on: June 01, 2015, 11:13:31 am »

Jack AT (0) DS
origamiscienceguy
flabort
Persus13
Peradon
Deus Asmoth (0) ToonyMan
Teneb (2) Jack, spruce
TheDarkStar
ToonyMan
roo
spruce (1) birdy, Deus Asmoth, Teneb
birdy51 (2) ToonyMan, roo
Cheesecake (3) roo, Peradon, Teneb, Persus, Jack, Peradon, Deus Asmoth
Epenguin (1) birdy
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spruce

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #168 on: June 01, 2015, 11:15:47 am »

Do 12ers play to a couple of competing wagons each day?
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Jack A T

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #169 on: June 01, 2015, 11:32:39 am »

Do 12ers play to a couple of competing wagons each day?
spruce: That would be nice, but what tends to happen is we end up with one main wagon and we end up with a bunch of scattered votes on other players from people who dislike the main wagon, all yelling their own things and none really trying to convince others.  Not enough effort to convince people of cases, not enough commentary on (or attention to) cases other than one's own aside from searching for scumtells.  I've griped about this before, and would love more acceptance of critical acceptance of cases.
Yeah, Teneb, you big meanie. Answer the guy with the terrifying avatar.
Key word being critical.  Less leaning on me, more fleshed-out thoughts about Teneb's actions and/or my attacks.
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Persus13

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #170 on: June 01, 2015, 12:33:16 pm »

Extend, please join me, while extensions generally go needlessly unused, there are plenty of people who aren't voting (loking at you, flabort and TDS) not seriously voting (birdy) and its 3.5 hours away from day end, so this one would be good. I also just created a tie, although I'll be around to break it if necessary.

Unvote Cheesecake. We don't even know if we are facing the Cult scumteam, and the sudden votes on cheese near day end are making me suspicious. Cheese is a good vig target anyway, and we would get more information out of lynching someone else, as Cheese hasn't had a lot of interaction with other players aside from being attacked.

Still, assuming that I'm right about the rot part, that's two-thirds chance that Cheesecake is scum. Thoughts on this theory?
Actually no. There's either a 100% chance he's scum or a 100% chance he's town (and a 100% chance he's third party). Cheesecake's role has already been given to him, so probability doesn't work that way.

Also, about the rot part, if Cheese had gotten a role PM saying he was part of a cult, it would have said he was a Vampire, not a Cultist.

I'm most suspicious of Teneb right now.

Let's look at his attack on spruce.  I believe this attack may be more an effort to look active and scumhunty than an effort to hunt scum.  It's slapped together oddly, with unsupported assertions mixed with supportable ones.  Teneb accuses spruce of constantly using nonsense to dodge questions and giving no content, but even in the set of spruce's posts that Teneb included in evidence, there's some content and the blocks of spruce-speak include answers (best example: this one).

Teneb plays up his massive block of quotes as being almost all of spruce's posts to that point.  There were 8 posts in that spoiler, and spruce had 17 posts at that point.  So, Teneb took less than half of spruce's posts, called them almost all of his posts, and attacked him for a lack of content.  Let's look at some of what Teneb omitted, then.  Maybe Teneb just omitted the assorted questions about how the setup works, how the forum works, and such...
Oh look, among the system and forum questions, there was some omitted interesting commentary on the game up to that point, with an emphasis on birdy.  Content.

Now, was spruce doing all that much scumhunting?  Not clearly, not by our standards, though he did have interest in and get information from birdy.  Did he, though, give no content and just run around dodging questions with nonsense?  No.

Teneb's other post is less objectionable, being merely one of the many "Cheesecake did a scumslip" posts.  However, it's interesting to see that in both posts, he went after classic soft targets: a newbie and a forum newcomer.  It's also interesting to note the lack of any questions to anyone but Cheesecake and spruce.  Also interesting to note the way he dropped the Cheesecake point without comment.

Teneb: Please explain.  I'm particularly interested in the reasons for omitting the posts I noted.  Also, why no interest in anyone but spruce and Cheesecake, and why drop the Cheesecake point completely without comment?
Isn't this Teneb's MO, attack a relatively new player to Bay12 because they play differently? He did it to Varee in the last NSBM and  he turned out to be right, and Deathsword's lynch caused town to lose. Having said that, I'll probably join you on the Teneb lynch if there's still a tie in a few hours. Of the two wagons, He's the one who seems more scummy.

Roo: I've been doing a review, and I've noticed that you didn't actually reply to my RVS question. Take a minute and answer it.

How is my answer to this relevant to my alignment? (Might have phrased that wrong mev). I am okay with the meta being rqs what I am not okay with is extending it further than it needs to be.
Unvote
Birdy

You are voting Birdy because he asked a question at the beginning of the game that you never answered? Why does every question have to be immediately relevant to alignment?
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Jack A T

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #171 on: June 01, 2015, 01:11:39 pm »

Isn't this Teneb's MO, attack a relatively new player to Bay12 because they play differently? He did it to Varee in the last NSBM and  he turned out to be right, and Deathsword's lynch caused town to lose. Having said that, I'll probably join you on the Teneb lynch if there's still a tie in a few hours. Of the two wagons, He's the one who seems more scummy.
Persus13: Except Teneb's case back in NSBM 5 was stronger to begin with (also, it wasn't a "they play differently" case, but this one isn't quite that either).  This NSBM 5 initial vote involved more pointing out and questioning specific questionable/scummy actions than Teneb's spruce case this game, the latter mostly being a bunch of assertions and a big block of quotes. 

What do you see as making Teneb scummier than Cheesecake, by the way?
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FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Persus13

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #172 on: June 01, 2015, 01:23:22 pm »

Isn't this Teneb's MO, attack a relatively new player to Bay12 because they play differently? He did it to Varee in the last NSBM and  he turned out to be right, and Deathsword's lynch caused town to lose. Having said that, I'll probably join you on the Teneb lynch if there's still a tie in a few hours. Of the two wagons, He's the one who seems more scummy.
Persus13: Except Teneb's case back in NSBM 5 was stronger to begin with (also, it wasn't a "they play differently" case, but this one isn't quite that either).  This NSBM 5 initial vote involved more pointing out and questioning specific questionable/scummy actions than Teneb's spruce case this game, the latter mostly being a bunch of assertions and a big block of quotes. 

What do you see as making Teneb scummier than Cheesecake, by the way?
That's certainly true, however, the overall pattern I've seen is Teneb voting someone day 1, said someone being relatively new to the forum and thus not doing scumhunting the "standard" way. NSBM 5 I remember as a specific example because that backlash against Teneb lost the game, while I saw that attack and was thinking "Here goes Teneb attacking a newish player again."

I see Teneb as scummier mainly because of thing you pointed out where Teneb omitted over half of spruce's post. While Teneb didn't make a claim that his list of spruce's posts was all of them, he did claim that they were most of his posts, which may have been a simple oversight, but the fact that the posts had more content then he claimed. I also see him as scummier because I won't consider Cheesecake's slip to be really scummy until after we find out the scumteam.
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flabort

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #173 on: June 01, 2015, 02:46:30 pm »


It's only one scumslip, and he's been defending it somewhat OKish.
flabort: What are the flaws in Cheesecake's defence that make it merely "somewhat OKish"?
Sorry I missed your question earlier, I really did mean to come back and answer it.
But which do you believe to be more likely: He misread the OP in which the only reference to a cult is the "Kills/Conversions" line in the order resolution, but which mentions Coven Witches, Scum, and third parties, or the more simple solution that he IS part of a cult?
We already know of his change of defense from "How do you know there isn't" to "I misread the OP" when more people started questioning him, and honestly the first of those is a pretty weak defense. The second is barely better. He's doing well enough that you could believe him, but it's still an innately flawed defense that relies on him having made a mistake; so it's OKish in that it's believable, but flawed.

Extend, please join me, while extensions generally go needlessly unused, there are plenty of people who aren't voting (loking at you, flabort and TDS) not seriously voting (birdy) and its 3.5 hours away from day end, so this one would be good. I also just created a tie, although I'll be around to break it if necessary.
I don't want to needlessly vote Cheesecake when there's already a lot of pressure on him for one single slip, when there's a slim possibility that he could be telling the truth at this stage, especially given that I pointed out the thing that caused everyone to wagon on him; I feel like I already cast a dark shadow of doom onto him, and my vote is therefor already on him; but it's not, so I can save it to vote someone else.
Teneb... is being how he always is, as far as I can see. Nothing out of the ordinary, except his changed name. So he's not suspicious enough for me to vote.

At this point I'm more suspicious of Spruce, for the reasons that I am generally suspicious of Shakerag at this point of the game. He's hardly being serious about anything, so I asked him about pinatas to see if he'd be even less serious or more serious. But also because it was a thinly veiled threat; be more serious or you'll be my pinata. On the plus side he did speculate on the flavor in response to my question, which was more serious than most of his other responses, but he then continued to be... himself, I guess. The reason I'm not voting him is because I know my vote is wasted on him right now, and he DID give a more serious response to my not-serious question/threat, so he must have picked up on the threat and understood what I meant.

That leaves a couple people with zero-to-no activity, EPenguin and OSG coming readily to mind.
In fact, Oragami has been even worse than spruce when it comes to being serious and answering questions straight. His two highest content posts are here and here: "I'm not going to base any arguments of of flavor text" and "My posts will be sparse", though up to that point they already were very sparse. There are a large number of questions directed at OSG which he hasn't answered, at least one of which are mine, and out of six posts four of them were completely shitposts.
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birdy51

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #174 on: June 01, 2015, 02:51:28 pm »

Extend

Prod on EPenguin ((If now is an appropriate time for that of course))

Throwing both of those out. I'll be posting later after I take care of some business.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #175 on: June 01, 2015, 02:54:19 pm »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
birdy51: roo, ToonyMan
Cheesecake: Deus Asmoth, Peradon
EPenguin: birdy51
origamiscienceguy: flabort
spruce: Teneb
Teneb: Jack AT, spruce



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today (About 4 hours from this post). There are 3 votes to Extend the day to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday. 4 Votes total needed to Extend. There are 2 possible extensions remaining for this day.
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flabort

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #176 on: June 01, 2015, 03:09:21 pm »

Given the current state of the day, I'll add an Extend vote.
I want to see the responses to my (probably flawed) reasoning.
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roo

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #177 on: June 01, 2015, 04:39:01 pm »

@peradon If you think I am voting birdy because of an rvs question you clearly didnt bother to read the post try harder pls.
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Persus13

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #178 on: June 01, 2015, 04:58:58 pm »

@peradon If you think I am voting birdy because of an rvs question you clearly didnt bother to read the post try harder pls.
You talking to me?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 8 - Day 1 - Dark Night heralds a Bloody Dawn
« Reply #179 on: June 01, 2015, 05:26:50 pm »


The Scribe's Tally Sheet
birdy51: roo, ToonyMan
Cheesecake: Deus Asmoth, Peradon
EPenguin: birdy51
origamiscienceguy: flabort
spruce: Teneb
Teneb: Jack AT, spruce



Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday. One possible extension remains for this day.
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