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[Kriellya]

Now we've misunderstood something else that I was originally confused about as well.

The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing )

If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.

I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Now we've misunderstood something else that I was originally confused about as well.

The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing )

If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.

I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.

What? Where does PW say that each 1+ costs one more 1- than the other no matter where it is? I thought it was just 1+=5 points, 2+=10 points, stuff like that.

[Kriellya]

Now we've misunderstood something else that I was originally confused about as well.

The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing )

If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.

I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.

What? Where does PW say that each 1+ costs one more 1- than the other no matter where it is? I thought it was just 1+=5 points, 2+=10 points, stuff like that.

That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.

[Xantalos]

Hmm. I can easily fix it if that's the case, I just wanted to get that +1 in Fate because I'm unfortunately prone to getting fucked over by fate. I'll just note that it isn't finished and go to sleep I guess.

[Kriellya]

Hmm. I can easily fix it if that's the case, I just wanted to get that +1 in Fate because I'm unfortunately prone to getting fucked over by fate. I'll just note that it isn't finished and go to sleep I guess.

Seems fair
I don't think any of this is finished until it goes on the wiki, and we haven't been committing these edits there yet (since the system is still 'under review', so to speak)

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.

Okay, lemme just pull up the relevant part here which I think is where you might be getting this from:

Here's how this works, everyone starts with a zero in all stats and skills. You can choose to stay like that if you want, or you can change the character by adding bonuses and negatives. To add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to take a -1 in another stat or skill. To add an additional  +1, you need to take two -1's from stats or skills. You can raise the same skill or stat multiple times, but the negatives increase this way each time. In other words, for me to raise, say, con to +3, I need to distribute -6 across the other skills. In other words, if you're gonna be really good at 1 thing, you're gonna be really shit at basically everything else. By the way, you have to keep skills and stats separate in this, ie you can't do +1 Con and -1 Dex.

Now, if you'll see the bolded part, which I assume is where you got that idea (And it is a touch weirdly worded, certainly) BUT, he gives a comparison of Con only, and mentions that (Put in italics) he says that If you wanna be really good at One thing, you need to be crap at everything else.

[Devastator]

Hmm, looks neat, but wouldn't it be easy to make a starting character with a pair of +3s?

Just do that, buy an amp, have end-game character out of the escape pod.

Maybe it should increase a bit faster, say 10/15/20 or 10/20/30 instead of 5/10/15, and cap starting chars at +1 per stat.

[Xantalos]

cap starting chars at +1 per stat.

but muh minmaxing

also PW put a limit of +2 on base characters

[Devastator]

Just suggesting.  Still, though, there should be something special about being good.  It shouldn't be something you get out of the box, or because you idled through a couple missions, being around for the wiki updates and the tokens..

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Well, you could have a 2+ and a 3+ in the stats department but...
Ohhh, I see why PW made it so that a -2 need 10 points to get out of, that means if you do power game, you need 15 points to not be an active hazard at doing anything else than what you spend your points in, in other words, you need to survive three missions being a glass cannon, retarded glacier, or anything else.
I mean, think about a normal ER mission, if I put 3+ into dex and 2 into strength, that would leave me a retarded idiot, with negative willpower, no 'fate', horrible endurance and no charisma, taking that idea and putting it into skills would be just as bad, as arriving and buying a laser rifle would be useless against any actually armoured enemies, having exotic abilities... Well, pumping points into two of the major combat skills might help, but you literally wouldn't be able to do anything else.

[Kriellya]

Current Rules Summary (because it's a little scattered.)

STEP 1: CREATE A BASE CHARACTER

Rules for a Base Character

• Start with +0 (novice) in everything
• Configure your Stats under the following rules
  
  • You may increase a stat by 1, at the cost of decreasing a stat by 1.
  • Each additional increase to any stat costs 1 additional point.
  • You cannot increase a stat above +2
  • You cannot decrease a stat below -2
  • For example, to increase Str by 1 and Dex by 1, you must decrease other stats by 3. To increase each by 2, you must decrease others by 10
  • Generically, to purchase the ith increase, you must decrease other stats by i.
• Repeat for Skills

STEP 2: ADD MISSION EXPERIENCE

• You get 5 stat points and 5 skill points for each completed mission.
  • The Space Battle Mission and the TimeSkip are currently worth 5 points each, placed anywhere you like.
• Points are spent to upgrade stats and skills at the following costs
  • -2 --> -1 :: 10 Points
  • -1 --> 0 :: 5 Points
  • 0 --> 1 :: 5 Points
  • 1 --> 2 :: 10 Points
  • 2 --> 3 :: 15 Points
  • 3 --> 4 :: 20 Points
• Generically, n-1 --> n :: 5*n points for levels above 0.

[Xantalos]

Essentially yeah. My hope is that since I can shapeshift, I can sorta get around that problem since my shifts to various forms can somewhat compensate for my lack of speciality in the physical stats. The other ones I can work on as I go along, I just wanna get to a +4 in Willpower for now.
...
Are there +levels beyond 4? If so, does the points cost increase at the same rate?

Hmm. I wonder how high of an Exotic skill modifier the AM could feasibly get. Lemme see here...

[Kriellya]

That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.

Okay, lemme just pull up the relevant part here which I think is where you might be getting this from:

Here's how this works, everyone starts with a zero in all stats and skills. You can choose to stay like that if you want, or you can change the character by adding bonuses and negatives. To add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to take a -1 in another stat or skill. To add an additional  +1, you need to take two -1's from stats or skills. You can raise the same skill or stat multiple times, but the negatives increase this way each time. In other words, for me to raise, say, con to +3, I need to distribute -6 across the other skills. In other words, if you're gonna be really good at 1 thing, you're gonna be really shit at basically everything else. By the way, you have to keep skills and stats separate in this, ie you can't do +1 Con and -1 Dex.

Now, if you'll see the bolded part, which I assume is where you got that idea (And it is a touch weirdly worded, certainly) BUT, he gives a comparison of Con only, and mentions that (Put in italics) he says that If you wanna be really good at One thing, you need to be crap at everything else.

Yeah, that example is part of the confusion. See later on in his edit, here

Ok, if you want to add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to also add -1 to another stat or skill. If you want to add +2 (be it +2 to a single stat or +1 to two different stats) you need to add -3 to other stats or skills (-1 from before, plus -2). If you want to add +3, then it becomes -6 (-1 + -2 + -3) Basically, for each additional bonus point you add, you have to add the next number up of negative points. This means that characters with higher starting stats and skills will also have lower stating stats and skills in other places. Those of you who want to be very focused will thus be very weak in other areas.

Bold for emphasis. PW just chose an example (+3 in one stat) that *doesn't* illustrate this property in his first iteration

[Xantalos]

The AM could feasibly have a +7 in amp usage, employing maximum minmaxing. She'd have 10 skill points left over.

[Devastator]

To be honest, it is more that minuses aren't actually to any detriment.  You have to specifically outfit yourself to make any rolls relevant, so it's not an additional limitation to suck at things you can't, or never will do anyway.