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[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

The AM could feasibly have a +7 in amp usage, employing maximum minmaxing. She'd have 10 skill points left over.

Well...
Hold on a sec...
Ah, here we go, when one of the players fought fake AM in the simulation area, she was wearing a Kinetic Shunt, right? What bonuses was she getting there?

To be honest, it is more that minuses aren't actually to any detriment.  You have to specifically outfit yourself to make any rolls relevant, so it's not an additional limitation to suck at things you can't, or never will do anyway.

Apart from stuff like endurance, I guess, Willpower, probably, but you would probably be boosting Will up if you could cheese it like that, wouldn't you? 'Cuz amps with the new system really are the best, unless something like fate also effects it.

[Xantalos]

PW didn't even roll for her, and that was several hundred years out of date.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Are you talking about the Kin Shunt? Because that is uncon, not exotic, it also requires intelligence, and not willpower.

[Xantalos]

Oh, I'm just assuming she dumped all the points she got over her 27 missions straight into amp usage - she could theoretically have done stuff like that, but it's likely she didn't and her power is linked to some out of context thing, hence the quicksilver reference from PW the one time.

[Devastator]

Well, defensive stats aren't like to be relevant, anyway, as removing the amp-overshoots that caused what, 80% of all deaths..  And with all temp-dead chars surviving..  I think there's been maybe two or three chars dying from non-amp instakills in the history of the game..

Yeah, no end should be doable without much issue.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Oh, I'm just assuming she dumped all the points she got over her 27 missions straight into amp usage - she could theoretically have done stuff like that, but it's likely she didn't and her power is linked to some out of context thing, hence the quicksilver reference from PW the one time.

Mmmm, that's what I'm thinking.
Wait, you know how it's pointed out amps run on souls? And that bag that releases voices, yet the AM couldn't detect anything invasive in the guy's brain? I wonder if 'Quicksilver' is kinda like a glue for ghosts, it sticks to 'em, so if the AM could have been pumped full of it, she might be...
Wait, remember that riddle? The one about 12 things now there is one? What if those could be related to souls chained to the AM, so she's losing them.
I dunno I'm tired leave me alone.

[Devastator]

Quicksilver is also a romantic word for mercury, so it could mean.. Anything.

Anyway, I suppose it could work out if the dump stats mattered, like you failing to run away with your 0 dex, or you failing to operate an elevator with your 0 int..

[Parisbre56]

@Everyone: There's no rush. We got to make sure the system is OK and then we got to make the new templates for the wiki.

@Kriellya: Not assault mission. Correct that to space battle. Also, timeskip only grants points to those that got points in the first place. Also Anomalous Planetoid mission grants 2 levelups since it counts as 2 missions

This is the log I got with some parts removed, not sure if anything important was said after I left.

Spoiler: Part 1 (click to show/hide)

[2015-03-23 01:33:54] *NickServ* You are now identified for Parisbre56.
[2015-03-23 01:33:56] -->| YOU (Parisbre56) have joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 01:33:56] =-= Topic for #einsteinianroulette is ``http://lparchive.org/Advance-Wars-Dual-Strike/Update%2022/29-Healing11.png''
[2015-03-23 01:33:56] =-= Topic for #einsteinianroulette was set by Remalle!Variety@i2246816zi629tu21.vc.shawcable.net on Sunday, 22 March 2015 22:59:06
[2015-03-23 02:17:16] |<-- Nav has left irc.darkmyst.org (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2015-03-23 02:17:34] -->| Nav (Mibbit@r64-545-69-83.home0.cgocable.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 02:21:24] |<-- Nav has left irc.darkmyst.org (Client Quit)
[2015-03-23 02:37:17] -->| Piecewise (Piecewise@qn-61-5-759-228.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 02:37:32] <Piecewise> mmamaahahhh
[2015-03-23 02:37:37] <Piecewise> blarg
[2015-03-23 02:37:39] <Piecewise> hello
[2015-03-23 02:37:43] <Piecewise> other noises
[2015-03-23 02:37:55] <Parisbre56> piecewise cried as he crawled out of a pool of blood
[2015-03-23 02:38:25] <Piecewise> pool of something
[2015-03-23 02:38:34] <Parisbre56> juices?
[2015-03-23 02:38:38] <Parisbre56> oil?
[2015-03-23 02:38:42] <Piecewise> Pool of bloodborne, soon enough
[2015-03-23 02:38:46] <Piecewise> Soon
[2015-03-23 02:40:20] <Piecewise> Oh I should do that new system and next mission stuff tonight
[2015-03-23 02:40:25] <Piecewise> Thats a thing to do
[2015-03-23 02:44:23] <Remalle> Piecewise y u no regiter and stuff
[2015-03-23 02:44:28] <Remalle> *register
[2015-03-23 02:45:16] <Piecewise> meh
[2015-03-23 02:45:21] <Piecewise> It is registered
[2015-03-23 02:45:23] <Piecewise> sort of
[2015-03-23 02:45:27] <Piecewise> I just don't use it
[2015-03-23 02:45:38] <Piecewise> because I don't know how to fly this thing
[2015-03-23 02:45:44] <Remalle> I'm not giving you +o manually any more >:|
[2015-03-23 02:46:05] <Piecewise> I don't think I've used it once, so I'm unconcerned
[2015-03-23 02:46:14] <Parisbre56> Isn't there something like Chatzilla for chrome (which I think piecewise is using)?
[2015-03-23 02:46:21] =-= Mode #einsteinianroulette +v Piecewise by Remalle
[2015-03-23 02:46:25] <Remalle> I'll give you +v though
[2015-03-23 02:46:36] <Piecewise> No idea what that even means
[2015-03-23 02:46:45] <Piecewise> You tech wizard
[2015-03-23 02:46:47] <Swordsmith04> It means he can mute the rest of us and you can still talk.
[2015-03-23 02:46:57] =-= Mode #einsteinianroulette +m  by Remalle
[2015-03-23 02:47:04] <Remalle> like so
[2015-03-23 02:47:05] <Remalle> Right guys?
[2015-03-23 02:47:07] <Remalle> Guys?
[2015-03-23 02:47:13] <Piecewise> oh dear
[2015-03-23 02:47:22] =-= Mode #einsteinianroulette -m  by Remalle
[2015-03-23 02:47:25] <Piecewise> A Mesk with a little power is a dangerous thing
[2015-03-23 02:54:55] -->| Alligator (Mibbit@r64-545-69-83.home0.cgocable.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 02:55:59] <Alligator> Hi
[2015-03-23 02:56:45] <Parisbre56> Hello
[2015-03-23 03:05:46] <Remalle> Hey
[2015-03-23 03:06:56] <Piecewise> alligator?
[2015-03-23 03:06:59] <Piecewise> Who dat
[2015-03-23 03:07:01] <Piecewise> wat
[2015-03-23 03:07:11] <Piecewise> I don't know no alligator.
[2015-03-23 03:10:33] <Remalle> Piecewise confirmed for wearing Crocs
[2015-03-23 03:12:25] <Parisbre56> Maybe we'll see you later Alligator?
[2015-03-23 03:13:59] <Alligator> In a while crocodile
[2015-03-23 03:14:01] |<-- Alligator has left irc.darkmyst.org (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2015-03-23 03:14:56] <Nikitian> Hi, PW!
[2015-03-23 03:15:26] <Nikitian> Have you thought about adding "Musicality" to the new stat system?
[2015-03-23 03:15:59] <Nikitian> (Or at least the "Everything Else" stat you once considered?)
[2015-03-23 03:17:20] <Parisbre56> Call the "Everything Else" stat competence for extra irony.
[2015-03-23 03:18:33] <Nikitian> Oh, man! That'd seriously screw up my new character build.
[2015-03-23 03:24:29] <Piecewise> Maybe I should add an extra stat
[2015-03-23 03:24:49] <Piecewise> One that I leave unexplained that has unknown effects
[2015-03-23 03:25:14] <Piecewise> Give lars a +1 in it, just to screw with people
[2015-03-23 03:25:53] <Nikitian> Awww, cool!
[2015-03-23 03:28:07] <syvarris> Oh, cool, PW is here now.
[2015-03-23 03:28:23] <syvarris> How's Mostwise?  Any better?
[2015-03-23 03:30:22] <Piecewise> Yeah
[2015-03-23 03:30:24] <Piecewise> he's better
[2015-03-23 03:30:32] <Piecewise> talked to him a bit ago, seems fine
[2015-03-23 03:30:55] <Piecewise> I'm considering removing charisma and speech. Or combining them
[2015-03-23 03:31:05] <syvarris> That's good.  Is the new stat system near done yet?
[2015-03-23 03:31:11] <Piecewise> Probably just combining them into a straight charisma
[2015-03-23 03:31:16] <Piecewise> Yep
[2015-03-23 03:31:24] <Piecewise> Just figuring some stuff out
[2015-03-23 03:31:28] <syvarris> I want to break it.
[2015-03-23 03:31:58] <Piecewise> It's done enough to create new characters but I'll have to go through and change everything else connected to it, or just tell Kri and the Gnomes to do it
[2015-03-23 03:32:39] <Parisbre56> might be better to just come up with the conversion rules and delegate implementation to others
[2015-03-23 03:37:42] <syvarris> Hey, PW, the Testament shard rifle was considered vetted and fine, right?  Not still OP?
[2015-03-23 03:38:46] -->| renegade (renegadelo@2601:7:2500:kxt:jovn:xpuk:qnrr:yxiv) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 03:40:15] <Piecewise> sure
[2015-03-23 03:40:33] <syvarris> Hi Renegade.
[2015-03-23 03:40:39] <renegade> Hey
[2015-03-23 03:40:59] <Nikitian> Hi
[2015-03-23 03:41:45] <Nikitian> @PW Also, I know I have asked this earlier and you refused (ignored? missed?), but I gotta keep trying: Still no luck for Mercenary-Pilot Profession subtype (+Aux)? I mean, daring pilot with heightened intuition is, like, the staple of the space opera genre!
[2015-03-23 03:42:14] <Nikitian> (as much as other Mercenary types)
[2015-03-23 03:45:59] <renegade> So did I miss anything good?
[2015-03-23 03:46:47] <Parisbre56> Lars is getting a special skill that gives him a direct line to the gods
[2015-03-23 03:47:02] <syvarris> Nah.  Not much's happened.
[2015-03-23 03:48:03] <renegade> The direct line to the gods could be helpful. Or hilariously disastrous
[2015-03-23 03:48:26] <Parisbre56> it was probably a joke. unless it wasn't
[2015-03-23 03:48:51] <syvarris> But if it wasn't it'll be pretty obvious when it happens.  Imma assume it was a joke 'till then.
[2015-03-23 03:49:43] <Piecewise> Removing starting professions so
[2015-03-23 03:49:46] <Piecewise> neh
[2015-03-23 03:49:52] <Nikitian> Oh
[2015-03-23 03:49:56] <Nikitian> Well, pity!
[2015-03-23 03:50:03] <renegade> Alright then
[2015-03-23 03:50:05] <syvarris> WHAT?  Nooo
[2015-03-23 03:50:06] <Piecewise> but you can certainly stat that character to start with
[2015-03-23 03:50:22] <Swordsmith04> No profession bonuses...?
[2015-03-23 03:50:23] <syvarris> Do we get extra beginnning stat points to compensate?
[2015-03-23 03:50:30] <Parisbre56> nice
[2015-03-23 03:50:49] <Piecewise> There aren't stat points to start with, at least not how you're used to them
[2015-03-23 03:50:58] <renegade> ...huh
[2015-03-23 03:51:25] <Nikitian> ... Just what sort of the game will we be playing a week from now on?
[2015-03-23 03:51:30] <syvarris> Do we get extra <whatever> to compensate?
[2015-03-23 03:51:52] <syvarris> @Nik A balanced one? D:
[2015-03-23 03:51:59] <Nikitian> D:
[2015-03-23 03:52:43] <Parisbre56> reminds me of people in those MMO games...
[2015-03-23 03:52:58] <Parisbre56> whenever there's an impending update
[2015-03-23 03:53:41] <syvarris> "I hope sods become a playable race..."
[2015-03-23 03:54:58] <Nikitian> "Robots have to be nerfed! They're utterly OP! Flesh-humans cannot even compete!"
[2015-03-23 03:57:24] <Parisbre56> "There's this XxXTheDoctorXxX hacking guys and giving them extra stats in exchange for their credit card info. Why hasn't he been banned yet?"
[2015-03-23 03:59:47] <syvarris> "Paris, everybody knows that horrificallyengorgedproductions has a terrible track record with that sort of thing.  They don't ban hackers, and they don't listen to our comments.  They just want our money.  That's why everything is so P2W."
[2015-03-23 04:02:40] |<-- renegade has left irc.darkmyst.org (Remote host closed the connection)
[2015-03-23 04:03:28] -->| renegade (renegadelo@2601:7:2500:kxt:jovn:xpuk:qnrr:yxiv) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:06:42] <renegade> "Missions aren't hard enough. We should be facing a minimum of one AoW and amp specialist per mission. And it's too easy to survive. Where's the hard mode?"
[2015-03-23 04:07:51] <syvarris> ((People complaining about it being too easy? I thought this was MMOs?))
[2015-03-23 04:08:29] -->| Caellath (chatzilla@179.234.uz.gvk) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:09:41] <Nikitian> "Man, that single blind unarmed broken-leg sod was one hell of a boss! They should downgrade the difficulty already, people actually die around here!"
[2015-03-23 04:11:32] <Parisbre56> "I kept shooting that EaterOfCold and it kept killing me. That's total BS. Tjis game is broken and if you do not fix it I'll stop playing and sue you and you'll loose all your moneys."
[2015-03-23 04:11:41] -->| Nav (Mibbit@r64-545-69-83.home0.cgocable.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:12:37] <syvarris> "You bet I'll loose the moneys.  I'll loose the moneys *of war* on you, and then you'll be sorry!"
[2015-03-23 04:12:47] <Remalle> Colin, is that you?
[2015-03-23 04:19:08] -->| Colin (Mibbit@201.sub-22-106-06.myvzw.com) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:19:22] <Colin> No.
[2015-03-23 04:19:29] <--| Colin has left #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:19:59] <Parisbre56>
[2015-03-23 04:20:31] <renegade> ...huh
[2015-03-23 04:20:54] <Swordsmith04> It was syvarris, guys.
[2015-03-23 04:21:09] <syvarris> How is it that obvious?
[2015-03-23 04:21:33] <Swordsmith04> You're both "Mibbit@201.sub-22-106-06.myvzw.com"
[2015-03-23 04:22:14] <syvarris> Next time I'll use a different device. >:\
[2015-03-23 04:22:51] <Parisbre56> different client or conection
[2015-03-23 04:29:24] =-= Caellath is now known as Kool-Aid
[2015-03-23 04:29:28] -->| Yoinkacious (Mibbit@h754-36-78-677.brodm5.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 04:29:29] =-= Kool-Aid is now known as Kool-AidMan
[2015-03-23 04:29:45] <Parisbre56> nobody can stop him...
[2015-03-23 04:31:29] =-= Kool-AidMan is now known as Caellath
[2015-03-23 04:32:10] <Piecewise> Your name confuses me cael
[2015-03-23 04:32:20] <Piecewise> koolaid?
[2015-03-23 04:32:57] <syvarris> Milno's kool, and he aids us.
[2015-03-23 04:33:01] <Nav> More like foolaid!
[2015-03-23 04:33:07] <Nav> JK
[2015-03-23 04:33:13] <Nav> Yer kool
[2015-03-23 04:33:28] <Parisbre56> well, he did aid dem phools
[2015-03-23 04:33:55] <Caellath> Kool-Aid Man.
[2015-03-23 04:34:12] <Caellath> I just changed my nick to barge into a channel while going "OHH YEAAAH".
[2015-03-23 04:34:37] <renegade> @Paris What, mission 16s merry band of idiots?
[2015-03-23 04:35:14] <Parisbre56> sure, I think carrying the dead and dying counts
[2015-03-23 04:37:51] <Caellath> Being a corpse-porter was half of a veteran's job in the HMRC back in the days.
[2015-03-23 04:38:24] <Caellath> The other half was trying to complete the mission in order to minimize the amount of corpses to carry.
[2015-03-23 04:38:43] <Caellath> Good old times, except not really.
[2015-03-23 04:39:21] <Parisbre56> Pretty sure it still is. Look at mission 18. Even in mission 17 the one new guy was the only one who got injured. By getting stuck in a room full of enemies.
[2015-03-23 04:40:03] <renegade> I think you've done often enough you could say you're a pro at it. Put it on your resume/inscribe it into you armor
[2015-03-23 04:40:44] <renegade> *your
[2015-03-23 04:40:51] <syvarris> Nah, the space is already taken up by 'honey badger don't care'.  Adding 'but carries your corpse to safety anyways <3' would ruin it.
[2015-03-23 04:41:15] <Parisbre56> Could make it a motto
[2015-03-23 04:41:29] <Parisbre56> "We shall carry your corpse when you die"
[2015-03-23 04:41:41] <Parisbre56> "Unless there are shinies we can take instead"
[2015-03-23 04:41:56] <Parisbre56> "Or there is something nasty coming our way"
[2015-03-23 04:42:16] <renegade> That could work. "Or if we think you'll make good armor."
[2015-03-23 04:44:42] <syvarris> No, no, that's not good enough.  "We shall carry your corpse on your dying day / Unless there are shinies that we can take away / Or there is something nasty coming our way / Or if your body would be a good shield today"
[2015-03-23 04:44:53] <syvarris> Ignore the fact that I only rhymed two words.
[2015-03-23 04:45:14] <Parisbre56> It's the thought that counts
[2015-03-23 04:45:17] <Parisbre56> Oh, new topic
[2015-03-23 04:45:28] <Parisbre56> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149606.new#new
[2015-03-23 04:45:47] <renegade> FOUND IT! Found ARMs new motto
[2015-03-23 04:46:55] <Parisbre56> 2 paragraphs in and already liking it
[2015-03-23 04:49:46] <syvarris> Takes ten missions to master someone.  I think I know who should become our new speech master.
[2015-03-23 04:49:52] <syvarris> *something >.>
[2015-03-23 04:49:56] <Remalle> Me?
[2015-03-23 04:50:03] <syvarris> You been on ten missions?
[2015-03-23 04:50:09] <Remalle> Uh... probably
[2015-03-23 04:50:38] <Remalle> Wiki says nine
[2015-03-23 04:50:39] <syvarris> Truly, your way with words has convinced me that you are our speech master.
[2015-03-23 04:50:55] <Remalle> And I just now put a single point in Speech
[2015-03-23 04:51:48] <syvarris> Oh wow, you have.  Nearly as many as Milno. O.O
[2015-03-23 04:52:04] <Nikitian> >Takes ten missions to master someone. - Actually, if I got it right, not necessarily; you just ought to have a nice starting-character bonus, and you could get there far sooner
[2015-03-23 04:52:34] <Piecewise> It means from having 0
[2015-03-23 04:52:53] <Nikitian> Yeah, I got it
[2015-03-23 04:52:56] <Piecewise> of course if you start with high stats you can get there faster
[2015-03-23 04:53:06] <Nikitian> I mean, realistically, we might already have masters by now
[2015-03-23 04:53:35] <Caellath> How many missions has Mesk been in? Nine?
[2015-03-23 04:53:48] <Caellath> That's a bit of a surprise.
[2015-03-23 04:53:53] <syvarris> PW, I assume that we can't lower a skill/stat below -2?
[2015-03-23 04:53:54] <Parisbre56> It's like professions but more freeform, like Grunt. Choose your bonuses, choose your penalties
[2015-03-23 04:54:44] <Nikitian> Yeah, actually very cool
[2015-03-23 04:54:59] <Caellath> Fate stat?
[2015-03-23 04:55:00] <syvarris> Also, how do equipment bonuses factor in; if I have -2 str, but a +2 exoskeleton and a +1 synthbody, what level am I considered to be at?
[2015-03-23 04:55:03] <Parisbre56> Do we get to know what Fate does or is it a surprise?
[2015-03-23 04:55:03] <Caellath> :C
[2015-03-23 04:55:12] <Remalle> Fate?
[2015-03-23 04:55:18] <Caellath> I have a really bad feeling.
[2015-03-23 04:55:22] <Nikitian> Lars has a +1, reportedly
[2015-03-23 04:55:31] <Remalle> ...Fate?
[2015-03-23 04:55:40] <Nikitian> Yeah
[2015-03-23 04:55:48] <syvarris> Also, is there a deadline on how long we can take to respec?
[2015-03-23 04:56:02] <Remalle> Nautron respec lorni virch
[2015-03-23 04:56:23] <Parisbre56> Until next time you have to use your stats, probably
[2015-03-23 04:56:52] <Parisbre56> Which will certainly be after the "figuring things out period"
[2015-03-23 04:57:16] <syvarris> ...So basically never for Heph people?  I can wait until after all the exploits are obvious?
[2015-03-23 04:57:26] <syvarris> Stupid non-BBCode chat client.
[2015-03-23 04:57:57] <Nikitian> Also, can someone explain why in the example raising Con to +3 requires -6 (and not -5=(-1)+(-2)+(-2))?
[2015-03-23 04:57:59] <Parisbre56> Don't tempt the GM
[2015-03-23 04:58:37] <Caellath> It keeps growing.
[2015-03-23 04:58:38] <syvarris> Because it equals -1-2-3?
[2015-03-23 04:58:41] <Parisbre56> Isn't -1 = +5 points?
[2015-03-23 04:58:52] <Parisbre56> same as +1?
[2015-03-23 04:58:53] <Caellath> But it's a min-max limiter.
[2015-03-23 04:59:08] <Nikitian> Ah, found it
[2015-03-23 04:59:19] <Nikitian> >but the negatives increase this way each time
[2015-03-23 04:59:22] <Nikitian> Okay
[2015-03-23 04:59:58] <syvarris> Also, why do we have stats points in sets of five, when everything is divisible by five anyway?
[2015-03-23 05:00:20] <Remalle> Hey
[2015-03-23 05:00:25] <Remalle> What was the AM's riddle again?
[2015-03-23 05:00:34] <Parisbre56> So that we can suffer brain damage.
[2015-03-23 05:00:51] <syvarris> First there were #, then there were #, now there are 2.  I think.
[2015-03-23 05:00:57] <Parisbre56> http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/NPC#The_Armory_Master
[2015-03-23 05:01:05] <Parisbre56> "First there were nine, then there were five, now two remain."
[2015-03-23 05:01:21] <Remalle> hmm
[2015-03-23 05:01:27] <Remalle> "We had names once, when we were many, but now we are one and we simply are."
[2015-03-23 05:01:40] <Piecewise> Ok: sy, those bonuses won't exist in their old forms. Remember, +1's aren't numerical pluses. They're a measure of skill. The increased strength and dexterity of synth flesh won't have a numerical bonus, it will just be understood.
[2015-03-23 05:01:53] <Remalle> I wonder if the AM is related to the anomaly from Mission 2 somehow
[2015-03-23 05:02:01] <syvarris> "First there were nine skill points to a plus one, now there are five, soon only two will remain."
[2015-03-23 05:02:36] <Nikitian> ^_^
[2015-03-23 05:02:36] <Piecewise> As per why +3 = -6 is +1=-1, +2=-3, +3=-6
[2015-03-23 05:02:45] <Piecewise> It increases and compounds
[2015-03-23 05:03:16] <Piecewise> and that is true regardless of if it is +3 or three +1's spread around
[2015-03-23 05:03:22] <Nikitian> Oh
[2015-03-23 05:03:27] <Nikitian> Now that's interesting
[2015-03-23 05:03:30] <Remalle> wat
[2015-03-23 05:03:36] <Remalle> numbers
[2015-03-23 05:03:37] <Remalle> confusing
[2015-03-23 05:03:39] * Remalle confuse
[2015-03-23 05:03:43] <Piecewise> Ok
[2015-03-23 05:04:10] <Piecewise> To add +1 to your character from a blank, all zero starting character means you have to add -1 too
[2015-03-23 05:04:16] <Piecewise> ok?
[2015-03-23 05:04:20] <Parisbre56> OK
[2015-03-23 05:04:39] <Remalle> no k
[2015-03-23 05:04:53] <Remalle> Ok got it
[2015-03-23 05:05:06] <Piecewise> If you want to add two +1's, either to the same stat or different ones, you have to add -3 to stats. -1+-2
[2015-03-23 05:05:19] <Nav> how terrible an idea would it be to use fate as a dump stat?
[2015-03-23 05:05:30] <Remalle> what is fate
[2015-03-23 05:05:31] <Piecewise> if you want to add +3, it's -1+-2+-3=-6
[2015-03-23 05:05:34] <Nav> or to pump everything into fate?
[2015-03-23 05:05:41] <Parisbre56> Should probably edit that in the post to make it clearer.
[2015-03-23 05:06:05] <syvarris> Ohhh, so if I want +1 fate, +1 will, and +1 int, I need to have -2 str, dex, and end?
[2015-03-23 05:06:42] <Parisbre56> yes
[2015-03-23 05:06:52] <Nikitian> @Piecewise How does Maurice's and Mesk's "medical proficiency=no need to roll Med with ordinary cases" special rule compare to these new skill levels? It seems obsolete with +4, semi-obsolete with +3, etc. ...
[2015-03-23 05:07:03] <syvarris> So it's more efficient to frontload a stat at character creation, and level up secondary skills through missions, since they don't suffer from inefficency?
[2015-03-23 05:07:08] <Parisbre56> and +4 would be -10
[2015-03-23 05:07:58] <Caellath> I'm staring at Fate and trying to discover its secrets through intimidation.
[2015-03-23 05:08:12] <Parisbre56> I think it's more like you choose which stats to dump  and then put any remaining points anywhere else you want.
[2015-03-23 05:08:32] <Nikitian> Well, or that, yes
[2015-03-23 05:09:23] <Nikitian> But Syv's idea still seems sound from mathematical standpoint; maybe we ought to make a graph or something to figure out the best approaches
[2015-03-23 05:10:04] <Caellath> Ask IronyOwl, he loves graphs.
[2015-03-23 05:10:06] <Parisbre56> Not really that hard. If you want the best efficiency, then only take one +1 or no +1s
[2015-03-23 05:10:24] <Parisbre56> If you want to focus on a certain skill, just pump that
[2015-03-23 05:10:35] <Parisbre56> If you know there's a skill you'll never use, just dump that
[2015-03-23 05:11:01] <Parisbre56> Will make things harder for Jacks of all trades like me a bit
[2015-03-23 05:11:17] <Parisbre56> Maybe I'll have to pick a focus instead.
[2015-03-23 05:11:21] <Piecewise> Nik: Yours is kinda special
[2015-03-23 05:11:46] <Caellath> Milno is also a Jack of All Trades with a focus on survivability and fending off mindfuck.
[2015-03-23 05:12:08] <syvarris> No, Paris, I meant that you can get a +4 in one stat as easily as you can get +1 in four stats at chargen, but you can get four +1s more easily through mission XP.
[2015-03-23 05:12:28] <Nikitian> Well, it appears that there is a miserable middle between spreading skillpoints around and pumping everything into a single stat (at the character creation) - around +2, perhaps?
[2015-03-23 05:13:19] <Nikitian> I meant that those -1 could be more easily bought off later than a particular skill level purchased; or not - seems hazy yet
[2015-03-23 05:13:28] <Caellath> @piecewise: How about the extra points and skills from stuff like the timeskip and the extra bits from taking part in both phases of Hep Defense (ground defense and ship assault)?
[2015-03-23 05:16:06] <Parisbre56> @Syv: Yeah, but if you get a +4 in chargen, you're trading 50 points for -75 points. So it's once again a loss in efficiency.
[2015-03-23 05:16:54] <Piecewise> Cael: What was the reward for that again?
[2015-03-23 05:17:17] <syvarris> Yes, but most of that -75 is in useless stuff.  People usually only use one combat skill, and rarely speech.  That's three free -2s right there.
[2015-03-23 05:17:48] <Parisbre56> Which is exactly what I said. Dump the stats you won't use
[2015-03-23 05:18:19] <syvarris> If I put +4 into one skill, that's ten missions equivalent.  If I put it into four different skills, that's four missions equivalent.  Do you see my point?
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[2015-03-23 05:18:34] <Parisbre56> No
[2015-03-23 05:18:44] <Parisbre56> I do not know what your point is
[2015-03-23 05:18:51] <Parisbre56> I understand what you are saying though
[2015-03-23 05:18:56] <Parisbre56> But I do not see a point
[2015-03-23 05:19:05] <syvarris> It's better to frontload one strong skill, and since you only need to choose one dump stat beyond the obvious, it's not much of a loss.
[2015-03-23 05:19:44] <Parisbre56> And the problem is...?
[2015-03-23 05:19:47] <Nikitian> Also, the same goes for putting those penalties into -2s or trying to spread them around to -1s
[2015-03-23 05:19:57] <Nikitian> instead of*
[2015-03-23 05:20:14] |<-- renegade has left irc.darkmyst.org (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2015-03-23 05:20:28] <Piecewise> I can't wait to force people to make rolls in stats they have -2's in
[2015-03-23 05:20:33] <syvarris> We can have raw recruits who are amp gods from go, with the penalty that they can't fire a gun, can't speech people, can't do math, and don't have general knowledge.
[2015-03-23 05:20:47] <Parisbre56> Yes, and?
[2015-03-23 05:21:13] <Parisbre56> It's a versatility VS power question
[2015-03-23 05:21:20] <syvarris> ...It's easy to avoid being forced into those four skills?  A player autokills anything he sees with his amp?
[2015-03-23 05:21:50] <syvarris> Exo can already be used to circumvent a lot of other skills.  Mass + Micro can forge stuff without a handi roll, for instance.
[2015-03-23 05:22:09] <syvarris> Aux can be used to circumvent physical combat abilities, like con and dex.
[2015-03-23 05:22:14] <Parisbre56> And how often does one use a sword?
[2015-03-23 05:22:39] <Parisbre56> But relies on special circumstances.
[2015-03-23 05:23:03] <syvarris> Like a three token exoskele, decent armor, and a gun.
[2015-03-23 05:23:22] <Parisbre56> Didn't piecewise say no the last time you tried that?
[2015-03-23 05:23:51] <syvarris> No, he named a thread "Saint's Death Warrent" without actually telling me my stuff wouldn't work.
[2015-03-23 05:23:56] <Piecewise> Alright, I'll just make it so you have to have -1 in everything else before you put a -2 in
[2015-03-23 05:24:23] <Nikitian> Oh, good... I guess
[2015-03-23 05:24:34] <syvarris> Everything else, as in everything that doesn't have a plus?  Or everything that isn't the one skill you chose?
[2015-03-23 05:25:04] <Piecewise> I dunno, which way would screw you the most?
[2015-03-23 05:25:20] <syvarris> Nyeh, either would solve the problem.  See, muchkins are useful!  We're masochists at heart.
[2015-03-23 05:26:18] <Parisbre56> @Syv: I'd say that was at least not an affirmation.
[2015-03-23 05:26:24] <Parisbre56> @PW: I continue to fail to see the problem, but if you say so.
[2015-03-23 05:28:00] =-= renegadelobster6 is now known as renegade
[2015-03-23 05:29:52] -->| WolfKitJ (holoirc@ubcw-121-089.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-23 05:31:41] <syvarris> Hey, wolfkit did exactly what I was talking about, in the exact way I said it'd happen.
[2015-03-23 05:31:55] <syvarris> Wolfkit!  I got you nerfed!  And myself!
[2015-03-23 05:32:15] <Piecewise> The problem is that it's true that something like speech or Charisma is barely used so it's a stat to dump negatives into with little consequence
[2015-03-23 05:32:53] <Nav> Maybe you should remove speech and charisma entirely?
[2015-03-23 05:33:24] <Nikitian> Maybe cap the starting skill level to +2?
[2015-03-23 05:33:30] <syvarris> Also, your stats are wrong.  You have -7, but also a cumulative +4.  The cost of a +4 is -10.
[2015-03-23 05:34:47] <Nikitian> (maybe that's three level-ups included or something?)
[2015-03-23 05:35:31] <Nikitian> Nope, does not add up - there would have been three 0 in that case, I suppose
[2015-03-23 05:35:43] <syvarris> ((Nah, he hasn't been on a mission.  I checked.
[2015-03-23 05:35:45] <Parisbre56> The first failed dexterity or endurance roll he gets, he's toast. He's one accident away from critical existential failure.
[2015-03-23 05:35:54] <WolfKitJ> Oh, I misread the way the cumulatove cost worked
[2015-03-23 05:36:07] <Nikitian> Yeah, had the same problem initially
[2015-03-23 05:36:20] <syvarris> True.  There's more useful stats than skills, so it's harder to frontload.
[2015-03-23 05:37:10] <Parisbre56> I think it's less of a problem of usefulness and more of a problem of numbers
[2015-03-23 05:37:12] <syvarris> Also, if he had been on a mission, he could have taken -6 for the +3, and then just used his mission EPs to give +1 to one stat.
[2015-03-23 05:37:13] <Caellath> Apply hard starting caps.
[2015-03-23 05:37:21] <Piecewise> I'm just not gonna explain fate
[2015-03-23 05:37:22] <Parisbre56> More skills means more skills to pick from
[2015-03-23 05:37:23] <Caellath> So we don't have master newbies.
[2015-03-23 05:38:05] <Swordsmith04> Are there Fate battlestims, now?
[2015-03-23 05:38:11] <Parisbre56> So the bonus they give should perhaps be smaller. Something like 1/3?
[2015-03-23 05:38:21] <Parisbre56> @Sword: It's called praying to Steve.
[2015-03-23 05:38:29] <Parisbre56> and the HMRC pantehon
[2015-03-23 05:38:43] <syvarris> Hmm.  Stats are annoying.  Even with Pw
[2015-03-23 05:39:17] <Caellath> Speech and charisma could be folded into Charisma as a skill.
[2015-03-23 05:39:22] <Caellath> Or Speech as a skill.
[2015-03-23 05:39:42] <Parisbre56> @Cael: Should be a skill
[2015-03-23 05:39:48] <syvarris> Even with Pw's first suggested nerf, I wouldn't be able to get a +2 in will, which I wanted, since I'm forced to have int, and I'm not stupid enough to put a zero in fate.
[2015-03-23 05:39:49] <Caellath> Since you're likely to want to focus on one or two skills, but most stats are important.
[2015-03-23 05:39:57] <Caellath> @Paris: That's what I said.
[2015-03-23 05:40:05] <syvarris> @Cael/PAris should be a stat, because there's too many dump skills.
[2015-03-23 05:40:17] <Parisbre56> Yeah, that's what I meant
[2015-03-23 05:40:31] <Parisbre56> stat
[2015-03-23 05:40:39] <Caellath> Ah, I see. To avoid using it as a dump skill.
[2015-03-23 05:40:42] <Nikitian> Actually, maybe the opposite?
[2015-03-23 05:40:49] <Nikitian> I mean, we already have dump skills
[2015-03-23 05:40:50] <syvarris> If Saint dies I'm gonna make a char with +4 in fate for the chuckles.
[2015-03-23 05:40:51] <Piecewise> Removed speech
[2015-03-23 05:40:56] <Caellath> Makes sense.
[2015-03-23 05:40:57] <Piecewise> Added +2 cap
[2015-03-23 05:41:15] <Nikitian> Cool!
[2015-03-23 05:41:34] <Nikitian> Also, did Speech get folded into Charisma or General Knowledge?
[2015-03-23 05:41:35] <Piecewise> Buffed fate
[2015-03-23 05:41:35] <syvarris> There we go.  Smart Pw, this is why you have munchkins break your system before it goes public.
[2015-03-23 05:41:50] <Piecewise> It's just charisma now
[2015-03-23 05:42:14] <WolfKitJ> So, I helped then?
[2015-03-23 05:42:16] <Piecewise> Nerf all stats, buff fate
[2015-03-23 05:42:21] <Piecewise> This is the way
[2015-03-23 05:42:31] <syvarris> Kinda, you served as an excellent example?
[2015-03-23 05:43:20] <Caellath> Give WolfKit the boot, medium style.
[2015-03-23 05:43:37] <Remalle> das boot
[2015-03-23 05:43:45] <WolfKitJ> I'm fixin it, I'n fixin it
[2015-03-23 05:44:02] <renegade> So, year on heph and defense of heph/ship assault. Do we still get points from those? If so, how much?
[2015-03-23 05:44:21] <Parisbre56> Yeah and twice the amount of points for the Anomalous Planetoid?
[2015-03-23 05:45:02] <Parisbre56> Since we got a double levelup for it.
[2015-03-23 05:45:09] <Piecewise> For planetoid yes, what were the points I gave for time skip? Same as a normal mission?
[2015-03-23 05:45:23] <Swordsmith04> You gave bonsues based on actions.
[2015-03-23 05:45:27] <Parisbre56> it was +3 skill points or +5 stat points I think
[2015-03-23 05:45:32] <Parisbre56> the maximum bonus
[2015-03-23 05:45:57] <renegade> Yup. Depended on what we wanted to improve
[2015-03-23 05:45:57] <Piecewise> Ok so you can chose +5 points in either stats or skills then I suppose
[2015-03-23 05:46:00] <Piecewise> Or mix it
[2015-03-23 05:46:15] <renegade> Alright
[2015-03-23 05:46:37] <syvarris> I got +3 skill points, and +2 stats for the year...
[2015-03-23 05:47:10] <Parisbre56> And we also got +3 stat points and +2 skll points for the space battle on Hephaestus
[2015-03-23 05:47:29] <Caellath> Yes, the Defense.
[2015-03-23 05:47:45] <Piecewise> I'm gonna go take a shower. Fight it out amongst yourselves for a few
[2015-03-23 05:47:50] <Caellath> Who went in the assault part got 3 extra stat points and 2 extra skill points.
[2015-03-23 05:47:52] <syvarris> I got +8 stats, and +5 skill for the defense/boarding.
[2015-03-23 05:48:06] <Parisbre56> No, you didn't
[2015-03-23 05:48:17] <Parisbre56> You got +5/+3 for the ground
[2015-03-23 05:48:28] <Parisbre56> and +3/+2 for the boarding
[2015-03-23 05:48:47] <syvarris> 5+3=8, 3+2=5, Paris.
[2015-03-23 05:48:58] <Caellath> Also, for the timeskip I have no idea what I gained.
[2015-03-23 05:49:00] <Parisbre56> Yes.
[2015-03-23 05:49:07] <Parisbre56> But the problem is the extra points
[2015-03-23 05:49:13] <Parisbre56> Since it counts as a mission
[2015-03-23 05:49:20] <Caellath> +1 Str and +1 Dex and... Uhh.
[2015-03-23 05:49:52] <WolfKitJ> Okay. I am now only somewhat of a ticking timebomb
[2015-03-23 05:50:02] <renegade> End?
[2015-03-23 05:50:20] <syvarris> Oh, yeah, the half-increments are a problem.  I was confused when you said "No, you didn't."
[2015-03-23 05:50:39] <Caellath> I'm trying to remember my bonus timeskip points.
[2015-03-23 05:50:45] <Caellath> Well, I think they won't matter.
[2015-03-23 05:51:34] <Parisbre56> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108083.msg5028504#msg5028504
[2015-03-23 05:51:38] <Parisbre56> it's there
[2015-03-23 05:52:37] <syvarris> Looks like you had +4 stats, +4 skills?  Assuming will was 15 before?
[2015-03-23 05:52:48] <renegade> So, timeskip is +5 to either skills or stats. Say the defense of heph and ship assault is a regular level up, with another +5 to either skills or stats
[2015-03-23 05:52:59] <Parisbre56> That's why we should keep a log
[2015-03-23 05:53:31] <syvarris> Well, we do keep logs now.  Levelup thread and wiki.  I thought the wiki barely existed when we did the timeskip?
[2015-03-23 05:53:38] <Parisbre56> yes
[2015-03-23 05:53:58] <Parisbre56> Could use any dropbox logs piecewise has
[2015-03-23 05:54:09] <Parisbre56> You know, that restore previous version or whatever it's called
[2015-03-23 05:54:22] <Parisbre56> If he still has the idiots in space and the logs go that far back
[2015-03-23 05:54:33] <syvarris> I agree with Ren, we should just do +5 to either.  There's way too many varied things that were given on the timeskip.
[2015-03-23 05:54:54] <Parisbre56> But some people got things other than stats or skills
[2015-03-23 05:55:05] <syvarris> Although, there were people that got special bonuses in lieu, or partially in lieu, of stats, yeah...
[2015-03-23 05:55:06] <Caellath> @Syv: Intuition was 1 before, IIRC.
[2015-03-23 05:55:48] <Parisbre56> Maybe piecewise rolled for the number of points someone got?
[2015-03-23 05:56:00] <syvarris> Ah, okay.  Yeah, i forgot you started the game with a 1 in intu.
[2015-03-23 05:56:45] <syvarris> When he comes back we can ask.  If so should we have him roll a bunch of numbers?
[2015-03-23 05:58:00] <Parisbre56> Depends. Do we want consistency or convenience? Should probably go with convenience. Whoever got stats, gets a set number of stats and that's that.
[2015-03-23 05:58:23] <Parisbre56> or skills
[2015-03-23 05:58:32] <Parisbre56> keep getting the two confused for some reason
[2015-03-23 05:58:53] <syvarris> That would probably be a good idea, although it does require checking.  What of the people who got bonuses in both?  Should some people get +5 stats and +5 skills?
[2015-03-23 06:00:26] <syvarris> Also, something's wrong.  I woke up nearly twenty hours ago, and got five hours of sleep too little, yet I don't feel tired.  I think I'm a vampire that feeds on breaking game systems.
[2015-03-23 06:00:47] <WolfKitJ> 4
[2015-03-23 06:00:53] <WolfKitJ> Oops
[2015-03-23 06:01:11] <renegade> I say hard limit. +5 to either skills or stats.  For the people that got other bonuses, they might need to personally talk to pw about it.
[2015-03-23 06:07:02] <syvarris> So, uh, I agree with that.  I also agree with the idea that defense gave a standard levelup, and boarding gave a half-levelup like the timeskip.  Anybody disagree?
[2015-03-23 06:10:26] <Piecewise> Ok so
[2015-03-23 06:10:31] <Piecewise> Fuck the time skip stuff
[2015-03-23 06:10:39] <Piecewise> too random, too hectic, too varying
[2015-03-23 06:12:36] <syvarris> Does that mean no levelup for timeskip, or just going with the nonrandom, nonhectic "+5 to either stats or skills"?
[2015-03-23 06:13:35] <Piecewise> It's just gonna be "You get 5 points. You can put them in skills or stats or some combo. Thats it"
[2015-03-23 06:14:04] <renegade> That works
[2015-03-23 06:14:21] <Caellath> Same as boarding, then.
[2015-03-23 06:15:37] <Nikitian> Non-levelup features and bonuses of time-skip still remain as-is, I hope? (I'd really hate to lose fleshknitter to retcon)
[2015-03-23 06:17:04] <Piecewise> Nah, thats fine. Just numbers. I won't retcon anything else if I can help it
[2015-03-23 06:17:24] <syvarris> PW, what is the purpose of the General Knowledge skill?  It seems like something that would be entirely useless (excellent dump stat) for most people, but entirely required for tinkerers, who make use of a lot of esoteric stuff.
[2015-03-23 06:17:57] <Nikitian> To play music, among other things?
[2015-03-23 06:18:15] <Parisbre56> history and geographt?
[2015-03-23 06:18:36] <syvarris> Oh, is it the 'everything else' skill?  I assumed it was something like "Oh, you're gonna mess with battlesuit plate?  Roll General Knowledge to see if you know what that is!"
[2015-03-23 06:18:43] <Caellath> To know about Gatsby at higher levels and stop looking like a dumbass when people talk about that?
[2015-03-23 06:20:36] <syvarris> If it is the everything else skill, might I suggest you not allow it to have a penalty?  While it would prevent people failing at singing so bad they accidentally kill themselves, it would reduce the options of powergamers who know how useless it is.  I.E, me.
[2015-03-23 06:22:07] <Caellath> To Fate or not to Fate?
[2015-03-23 06:22:31] <Caellath> It seems like a luck stat that works in case something horrible and random must happen to a group of people.
[2015-03-23 06:22:44] <syvarris> To fate, definitely.  Especially for you, who's a frontline combatant immune to most other things.
[2015-03-23 06:23:08] <syvarris> Besides, you've got the points to spare.  A +1 should keep you mostly safe, and only costs one mission- of which you have /11/
[2015-03-23 06:23:37] <Piecewise> General knowledge is just gonna be used for when someone rolls something that I question if they should actually know about
[2015-03-23 06:23:48] <Caellath> ... Tinkerers.
[2015-03-23 06:23:57] <Piecewise> Because people seem to pull info out they ass a lot
[2015-03-23 06:24:18] <syvarris> ...What about Heph personnel, who're supposed to have studied a lot of tech, and have a lot of time and resources to do research?
[2015-03-23 06:24:24] <Parisbre56> Is strength stat really necessary? What is strength used for?
[2015-03-23 06:24:29] <Caellath> I try to avoid that, though Milno's acclimation to tech could have been done more tastefully.
[2015-03-23 06:24:34] <Parisbre56> And isn't that basically what intelligence did?
[2015-03-23 06:24:59] <syvarris> Not really.  Int was rolled when people had their char figure it out, rather than figuring it out themselves.
[2015-03-23 06:25:02] <Piecewise> Strength and other stats are used for how well you utilize your stats, not their actual level
[2015-03-23 06:25:31] <Piecewise> having +4 in str won't make you as strong as an avatar or something

[Parisbre56]

Spoiler: Part 2 (click to show/hide)

[2015-03-23 06:25:34] <syvarris> Okay, so if I have a +2 exoskeleton and a +2 synthbody, but a natural strength of -2, I always misuse that massive power?
[2015-03-23 06:25:42] <Parisbre56> @syvarris: I remember Miyamoto rolling intelligence for knowing the formula of C4.
[2015-03-23 06:25:52] <Parisbre56> and he said exos don't give bonuses
[2015-03-23 06:26:07] <Parisbre56> they are just there to up some abstract strength metric
[2015-03-23 06:26:17] <Piecewise> Well, there's no longer +2 exoskeletons and shit, but yes, an avatar with -2 is gonna just be a fucking clutz that tears his teammates in half
[2015-03-23 06:26:28] <renegade> Heh
[2015-03-23 06:26:39] <WolfKitJ> So if you have a have a -1 in strength but an exoskeleton you can lift boulders that a normal human couldn't, but are likely to drop it on your head?
[2015-03-23 06:26:51] <Piecewise> Basically yes
[2015-03-23 06:27:08] <Parisbre56> So, lifting a rock with an exoskeleton, strength roll
[2015-03-23 06:27:14] <Parisbre56> Throwing a rock, dex roll
[2015-03-23 06:27:23] <Parisbre56> Lifting and throwing str+dex roll?
[2015-03-23 06:27:38] <syvarris> So everyone has the same strength at chargen?
[2015-03-23 06:27:45] <syvarris> As in, power, not control?
[2015-03-23 06:28:44] <renegade> Sounds right
[2015-03-23 06:28:52] <Piecewise> Yeah, for the most part.
[2015-03-23 06:28:58] <Piecewise> And no paris
[2015-03-23 06:29:09] <Piecewise> Throwing a rock in general is just str
[2015-03-23 06:29:17] <Piecewise> but aiming it at something would require dex
[2015-03-23 06:29:47] <Piecewise> It's basically the same as before
[2015-03-23 06:30:21] <syvarris> Why are the points given in increments of five, when all the milestones are divisible by five?  Putting 4 in one stat, and 1 in another, serves no purpose at all.
[2015-03-23 06:30:33] <Parisbre56> brain damage
[2015-03-23 06:31:38] <syvarris> Is that gonna become common?  IIRC, we've only had one mission with it, although years ago PW did say that ALL death would potentially result in minor stat loss.
[2015-03-23 06:32:13] <Parisbre56> Steve mind control
[2015-03-23 06:32:22] <Parisbre56> mind control results in brain damage
[2015-03-23 06:32:39] <syvarris> Okay then.
[2015-03-23 06:32:44] <Caellath> Deaths and traumatic events still possibly cause damage to stats.
[2015-03-23 06:32:56] <renegade> How is Will going to interact with amps now? Do you have a Will pool now?
[2015-03-23 06:33:03] <Caellath> Brain damage did it in M16, but there were stat losses before for deaths.
[2015-03-23 06:33:09] <Piecewise> I really REALLY should have deaths start causing problems
[2015-03-23 06:33:14] <Piecewise> hmm...
[2015-03-23 06:33:15] <Caellath> Like 1 point in Dex and so.
[2015-03-23 06:33:52] <renegade> Yeah, about that. How much of a stat point/skill point loss is Thaddeus going to have because of the fuck you wave?
[2015-03-23 06:33:58] <Piecewise> I dunno if it should just give you less points to level up, or delevel you or...hmm
[2015-03-23 06:34:01] <Caellath> I do remember Orb's character, the paranoid one, lost a point in a stat after dying in the Serial killer mission.
[2015-03-23 06:34:12] <Caellath> So it didn't stop at Mission 1.
[2015-03-23 06:34:12] <Parisbre56> no difference
[2015-03-23 06:34:19] <syvarris> They're basically identical, you realize?
[2015-03-23 06:34:23] <Parisbre56> unless you reduce a stat more than 5
[2015-03-23 06:34:43] <Piecewise> The reduction in level points is probably best
[2015-03-23 06:34:58] <syvarris> Eh, true.  That seems more severe than what PW usually does.
[2015-03-23 06:35:10] <Piecewise> Ie nothing
[2015-03-23 06:35:39] <syvarris> For all of his sadistic charades, he's actually pretty nice.  Case in point:Saint isn't dead.
[2015-03-23 06:36:28] <renegade> He was just waiting for this, so you could do most of his work for him. Now he just needs you to mess up
[2015-03-23 06:37:17] <syvarris> Most of his work?  What work?
[2015-03-23 06:37:49] <renegade> Respec your character to his advantage
[2015-03-23 06:38:06] <syvarris> ...
[2015-03-23 06:38:13] <syvarris> What?
[2015-03-23 06:38:31] <Caellath> I think renegade means gimping yourself trying to min-max.
[2015-03-23 06:38:40] <renegade> That. Thank you
[2015-03-23 06:38:55] <Caellath> So pw can make you roll for your bad stats and die ridiculously.
[2015-03-23 06:39:22] <Parisbre56> It's easy, because then he needs no excuse
[2015-03-23 06:39:32] <Parisbre56> "You should had put more points in X"
[2015-03-23 06:39:39] <syvarris> I have penalties in most stats already... the only argument you might mean is that he reframed the meaning of stats, so I can't cover for gimped physical stats.
[2015-03-23 06:40:00] <syvarris> Also, you assume that I'm going to gimp myself.
[2015-03-23 06:40:41] <Remalle> syvarris is a gimp?
[2015-03-23 06:41:49] <syvarris> You could also mean reframing how the rolls work; now, rolling a 1 with a -2 means instant death, so I could kill myself if I gimped speech and decided to talk to someone.
[2015-03-23 06:41:53] <Caellath> The correct term is handicapped.
[2015-03-23 06:42:08] <Caellath> Or "special necessities individual".
[2015-03-23 06:42:20] <Parisbre56> "You choke on your saliva and die."
[2015-03-23 06:42:20] <Piecewise> Mentally Hilarious
[2015-03-23 06:42:46] <Piecewise> Sy now required to wear a leather face mask
[2015-03-23 06:42:48] <Piecewise> Canon
[2015-03-23 06:43:24] <syvarris> I could also kill myself if I took a -2 in gen. know, and then continued tinkering...  "Oh, you try to remember what the properties of that armor are, and end up giving yourself an aneurism"
[2015-03-23 06:44:07] <Caellath> I think black ops can't gimp general knowledge.
[2015-03-23 06:44:09] <Piecewise> Don't tempt me
[2015-03-23 06:44:15] <Parisbre56> -2 intelligence while trying to search the internet: "You smash your head through the computer screen, cutting your jugular".
[2015-03-23 06:44:20] <syvarris> Although, I'm certain that wasn't his plan, because one of the things he suggested was preventing me from taking any -2s until all my other stats had the less suicidal -1 already.
[2015-03-23 06:44:27] <Caellath> Unless you're just a "tool" soldier like braindead Faith was during the assault on Hep.
[2015-03-23 06:45:18] <syvarris> It's all pretty moot though, since we basically don't roll stats on Heph.  And I'm stupid cautious, moreso even than Milno.  Partially because I already have a death warrent.
[2015-03-23 06:46:25] <Caellath> Well, you're in a pretty safe work environment.
[2015-03-23 06:46:38] <syvarris> Also, I don't actually think PW wants to kill me, because I haven't actually abused any stat mechanics since I got on Heph.  Unless I'm just so annoying OOC that he does, which is entirely reasonable.
[2015-03-23 06:46:55] <syvarris> Also, I type a lot when unconciously tired, don't I?
[2015-03-23 06:48:21] <WolfKitJ> -2 to handiwork: roll a 1 for painting something, stab yourself in the neck with the brush
[2015-03-23 06:48:42] <Piecewise> Sy, don't sell yourself short
[2015-03-23 06:49:08] <Piecewise> There are plenty of reasons I want to kill you~
[2015-03-23 06:50:49] <WolfKitJ> Is there even a character that you don't want to kill?
[2015-03-23 06:51:37] <Piecewise> I'm fond of several characters, though that dosen't mean I won't kill them
[2015-03-23 06:51:51] <Piecewise> doesn't**
[2015-03-23 06:53:14] * Caellath furiously raises Fate stat
[2015-03-23 06:53:22] <renegade> @PW  So, two things. Stat/skill point loss from fuck you wave and how is Will handled with amps? Is there still a will pool now?
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[2015-03-23 06:55:12] <Piecewise> There's still a will pool, though it's not the same
[2015-03-23 06:55:18] <Piecewise> Well. mechanically
[2015-03-23 06:55:23] <Piecewise> it's the same for the players
[2015-03-23 06:55:45] <Piecewise> Good idea cael
[2015-03-23 06:55:56] <Piecewise> All points in fate
[2015-03-23 06:56:18] <Caellath> No, I still need Will to prevent mindfuck.
[2015-03-23 06:56:37] <Parisbre56> But you can just trust fate to not bring you any mindfuck
[2015-03-23 06:56:44] <Caellath> All points in Fate means I'd be a Master in Fate (?), which is a dubious thing to put in your resume.
[2015-03-23 06:57:02] <Parisbre56> You are a master of your own fate
[2015-03-23 06:57:03] <WolfKitJ> This is ER. There shall be mindfuck for all
[2015-03-23 06:57:06] <Nikitian> ... And then [Fate] was exclusively rolled for summoning Pantheon powers
[2015-03-23 06:57:39] <Caellath> @Paris: Does it mean I'll be able to remember and recite Invictus?
[2015-03-23 06:57:59] <Nikitian> Wait - Brother Lars was right all along. All praise Saint Milno!
[2015-03-23 06:58:17] <Parisbre56> Heh. There is some sort of doom prophecy right? Our win condition for the campaign is to get a man who is a master of fate and can thus alter the prophecy.
[2015-03-23 06:58:46] <Parisbre56> Therefore if you put all points in faith you can win the game
[2015-03-23 06:59:04] <syvarris> Just realized, the addition of gen. know. ruins my first backup char's concept.  He was gonna be a crazy guy who tatoo'd himself religiously, and read the gibberish tatoos to have complete knowledge of all past things that happened in game.
[2015-03-23 06:59:31] <syvarris> Justified by stasis dementia, of course.  I admit that the primary purpose was to test what PW would let me get away with.
[2015-03-23 06:59:44] <syvarris> ...Yeah, maybe he does have plenty of reasons to kill me.
[2015-03-23 06:59:56] <Parisbre56> you've got that hacker attitude
[2015-03-23 07:00:03] <syvarris> What?
[2015-03-23 07:00:09] <Parisbre56> testing the limits
[2015-03-23 07:00:52] <Parisbre56> I dunno, I'm half asleep.
[2015-03-23 07:01:00] <Parisbre56> Not talking sense.
[2015-03-23 07:01:03] <Parisbre56> Going to bed.
[2015-03-23 07:01:09] <Parisbre56> Goodbye
[2015-03-23 07:01:13] <syvarris> I should too.  SO am I.
[2015-03-23 07:01:17] <syvarris> Live Long And Prosper.
[2015-03-23 07:01:22] <Nikitian> Good night, friends
[2015-03-23 07:01:22] <syvarris> \\//
[2015-03-23 07:01:23] <Parisbre56> Qapla
[2015-03-23 07:01:34] |<-- Nikitian has left irc.darkmyst.org (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2015-03-23 07:01:37] <WolfKitJ> Night
[2015-03-23 07:01:56] [INFO] Disconnecting from IRC.  Click close again to exit now.
[2015-03-23 07:01:56] |<-- WolfKitJ has left irc.darkmyst.org (Remote host closed the connection)
[2015-03-23 07:01:56] [QUIT] Disconnected from irc://irc.darkmyst.org/ (irc://irc.darkmyst.org/). [[Reconnect][Reconnect to irc.darkmyst.org][reconnect]]

The important thing to note here is that Sy is required to wear a leather mask. No, I do not know how it works with a robot body.

More seriously, exoskeletons and synthflesh and things like that no longer grant bonuses to rolls. They just allow you to do things, make you stronger. So no matter how high your str stat is, you cannot lift a very heavy weapon without an exoskeleton and no matter how strong of an exoskeleton you have, you can still mess up throwing a rock and kill yourself if you have a -2 to strength or dex.

[Knight Otu]

Respec in progress

Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base

Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 0
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +1
Fate:0

Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +0
Unconventional Weapons: -1
Exotic weapons: +2
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: -1

M6 Samsonite Abyss   5/5
M9A Ghostship      5/5
M11 Heph Assault      5/5
Time Skip
M12 Heph Defense      5/5
M18 Eater of Cold      5/5
         25/25 +5


Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec WIP

Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: +1[5]
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +2 [10 +10/15]
Fate: +1 [5]

Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +1 [5]
Unconventional Weapons: -1
Exotic weapons: +3 [15]
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: -1

Remaining: 0 stats, 5 skill, 0 wild?

I'd really like to get willpower to a +3, but I don't particularly want to skimp on potentially necessary other stats, and I get the feeling I may want a +1 Fate...

Well, now I have 5 skill points I'm not sure how to use. I probably also should consider moving the GK -1 to uncon instead.

[Tavik Toth]

I'm still really confused right now on how to respec my sheet even after reading the rules.

[swordsmith04]

Spoiler: Base Character (click to show/hide)

Strength: -1
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +2
Fate: 0

Intuition: -1
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: 0
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic Weapons: +2
Auxiliary: -1
Medical: -1
General: 0

Spoiler: Character after missions (click to show/hide)

Missions: 12B (Boarding), 14

Strength: -1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: +1
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +2
Fate: 0

Intuition: -1
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: +1
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic Weapons: +2
Auxiliary: -1
Medical: -1
General: 0

Added base character, since I didn't see the edit to the OP asking for them until now.

[Toaster]

But Lars has a +1 in it, just as default

And I was going to put points in it to represent his pious connections!  I cite this for his ability to survive six missions without losing a limb.

Let's see...

Spoiler: Brother Lars, at creation - Final (click to show/hide)

Stats:
Strength: 0
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 0
Mind: 0
Fate: 1 *By the grace of Steve/PW
Intuition: 0

Skills:
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: 1
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic weapons: 0
Auxiliary systems: 0
Medical tech: -1
General Knowledge: 0

Spoiler: Point gains (click to show/hide)

Missions: 8, 9B (x2), 11, 12, 13, 17 = 7 * 5 = 30
Timeskip: 5 either
Boarding: 5 either

Total:  35 points in both plus 10 points to split in either

Spoiler: Brother Lars, current - Final (click to show/hide)

Stats:
Strength: 0
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 1
Mind: 1
Fate: 3
Intuition: 0

Skills:
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: 3
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic weapons: 1
Auxiliary systems: 2
Medical tech: -1
General Knowledge: 0

PW approved changing to the mindread amp from the mind control amp at full refund; adjusted inventory appropriately.

I think that covers it.  Lars is a great shot and well blessed by the gods. Physical stats lost out in the transition, but I really want him to have that +2 charisma (which is spent halfway towards).  The other alternative is to stick with +2 fate, finish off the +2 charisma and +1 str, and move one of the half-levels toward skills, but I think I like this one better.  With factoring in the base defense, I was able to finish out Charisma and move the timeskip points from Intuition to Strength.  Next two missions will cover dex, end, aux, and handi.


In final, there was no way I was getting to +2 exo without sacrificing some of the intent of the character, so that's where we are now.  Sad about just +1 charisma, but something had to give.  I think the +3 fate better reflects the vision and how the character has played out.

[NAV]

Dubley

Spoiler: Starting (click to show/hide)

Strength: +2
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma:-1
Intelligence: 0
Willpower:-1
Fate:-1

Intuition:-1
Handiwork:+2
Conventional:0
Unconventional:0
Exotic:-2
Auxillary:0
Medical:0
General:0

Spoiler: Levelups (click to show/hide)

Mission 11 (5/5)
Timeskip (5 either)
Mission 12a (5/5)
Mission 12b (5 either)
Mission 15 (5/5)
mission 18 (5/5)
Total: 20/20 +10 either

Spoiler: Current (click to show/hide)

Strength:+2
Dexterity:+1 [5]
Endurance:+1[5]
Charisma:-1
Intelligence:+1[5]
Willpower:-1
Fate:0 [5]

Intuition:-1
Handiwork:+2
Conventional:+2 [15]
Unconventional:+1[5]
Exotic:-2
Auxillary:+1 [5]
Medical:0
General:+1 [5]

[Toaster]

Wait, how does the Heph Defense count?  Half if you did one part, whole if you did both parts?  I might be misunderstanding that.