I am done apologizing for being born how I was.... I hide how I am, because the terrible people of the world, will ruin me for it (if they haven't already), not because something's wrong with me. I'm amazed with all that's wrong in the world that people want to play bathroom police.
You're not hearing me.... You're on the wrong side of history. The unshown ending is that the people who have a problem with it are forced to use the other 3rd bathroom. Good. I'm getting a little sick of being out in the cold from tired old hat arguments. You do realize your arguments are finally losing ground as we gain acceptance, right?
I'm going to assume you misread my post. I was agreeing that for purposes of this discussion it was reasonable to consider transgenders to be the sex they've transitioned to:
at least in the context of bathroom use, there should be no need to differentiate between male and FtM or between female and MtF.
Unless I'm mistaken, though I suspect you would phrase it more strongly, the above statement is something you agree with. So again, I'm going to just assume you misread me.
What LordBucket means (please correct me if I'm wrong, LB), at least partially, by "this isn't about you", is that the majority of people don't feel strongly about honest people such as you, Truean, using the women's facilities; they feel strongly about men who may take advantage of the protections afforded you to harm other honest folks.
Well, I don't think gendered bathrooms really exist because of fear that men will take advantage of women. I think they exist to give people a space where they can let down their social barriers at a time when they feel vulnerable. For example, we've probably all known women who refuse to step outside the house without putting on makeup and guys who suck in their gut whenever a woman passes by. There exists social pressure to "put on your best face" when in the company of the opposite gender. And nobody wants to deal with that when they're peeing.
And this is why it isn't about transgenders. Women don't want
men in their bathrooms and men don't want
women in their bathrooms. Though in the case of men there may be some social pressure to engage in male posturing and respond with "oh, but my dick is so big, of
course I want women in there to see me!" But this is exactly the sort of thing that gendered bathrooms exist to eliminate. This phenomenon would still exist even if there were no transgenders at all.
The real question that dispels or confirms everything I've said, about the opposition's views, about everything, comes down to one question:
Do you believe a person can legitimately change their sex? <--- This what everything spawns from right here.
If yes,
If no,
It's ironic for me to be the one needing to point this out to you, but it's not as binary as you're indicating. Consider a pre-op male-to-female. They're taking hormones, they have breasts, but they still have a penis. Are they male or female? Not so "X or Y" is it?
Yes, we can probably reasonably assume that since this person is on a path of intention to no longer be male, that it's very unlikely that they're going to go into the women's room and harass and rape all the girls. But again, that's not what gendered bathrooms exist to prevent. They exist to allow people the chance to relax and let down the social barriers they're expected to maintain in the company of the opposite sex.
If you have a penis and look obviously like a guy, it
doesn't matter what gender you "feel like you associate with." What matters is whether people see you and react with
"just us X's in here, all's well" or
"Oh, noes! Y invading our personal space!" This isn't a transgender issue. Same social rules apply to me as apply to you. I can't put on a dress and hang out in the girls' bathroom either.
"Can a person legitimately change their sex?" It depends. You've already brought up the chromosomes issue.There are technological limits (for now) to what we can do. But I will grant you that chromosomes
don't matter for the purposes of this particular conversation. Nobody is going to be examining you under a microscope when you walk into a bathroom. If you're trying to become pregnant,
prospects for sex change do not look good. But again, for the purposes of this conversation you're probably not going to the bathroom to get pregnant. You're probably going to the bathroom...to pee. And in that context, for purposes of this discussion, yes I will agree that it is reasonable and acceptable to consider transgenders to be the gender they've transitioned to.
But act in good faith and use your best judgement. If you just started taking hormones last week and still have a penis and waltz into the women's room, don't be surprised if you're asked to leave. Act with courtesy. Don't use to situation to try to prove something.
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Topic: Transgender Bathrooms (Read 23829 times)