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Author Topic: Transgender Bathrooms  (Read 23651 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #150 on: March 13, 2015, 03:53:52 pm »

A big aspect of how bad the law system can often be is laws being snuck through bigger laws. (I cannot remember the term for this)
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smjjames

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #151 on: March 13, 2015, 03:56:34 pm »

A big aspect of how bad the law system can often be is laws being snuck through bigger laws. (I cannot remember the term for this)

One term I've heard from congress stuff are calling them 'riders'. There's probably another term though.

Also porkbarrel spending and all that.
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Truean

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2015, 03:57:53 pm »

A big aspect of how bad the law system can often be is laws being snuck through bigger laws. (I cannot remember the term for this)

That depends upon what you mean. If you mean attaching a little law onto a big law, then that's called a "legislative rider." Also known as an attachment bill. There are other terms for it, some of them derogatory. "Pork" comes to mind. Gist being they slap something on a larger bill and won't vote for it until and unless that thing is included. You'd be amazed how many pet projects are passed to pander to a congressperson's home constitutions this way just to practically ANYTHING done.

If it gets passed (please no....) then that's how this will happen http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/06/florida-bill-crime-transgender-restroom

Did you spot how they're trying to track the outline I posted before? There's a reason for that.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 04:01:06 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

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Frumple

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2015, 04:00:30 pm »

Aye, rider's the general term. It's even relevant to the discussion, since... kentucky, I think? Is currently trying to sabotage a bipartisan education related bill by attaching a transgender bathroom segregation law to it.
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Truean

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #154 on: March 13, 2015, 04:01:57 pm »

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/SB76.htm That one? I love how even they had to delete the "EMERGENCY" provision.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Neonivek

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #155 on: March 13, 2015, 04:04:31 pm »

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/15RS/SB76.htm That one? I love how even they had to delete the "EMERGENCY" provision.

Well... that was... disarmed rather fast.

I am happy but that was honestly a huge anti-climax.

Now it can just stay in legal hell.
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Frumple

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #156 on: March 13, 2015, 04:06:09 pm »

I don't... think so? I might not even have the state right -- it's the one where buncha' people got together to give students an influence on who gets elected superintendent, and then some republican jackwad decided to attach his precious transhate bill to it.

E: It was kentucky. You can see one of the news reports on it here. Probably better sources for it than yahoo, but I currently haven't ate in something like 18 hours so I seriously don't feel expending the effort to find a better one.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 04:08:38 pm by Frumple »
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Neonivek

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #157 on: March 13, 2015, 04:13:50 pm »

That is extremely scummy...
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #158 on: March 13, 2015, 04:15:02 pm »

.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 05:30:45 pm by penguinofhonor »
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smjjames

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #159 on: March 13, 2015, 04:15:50 pm »

The heck on this bit from the guardian link?? :
"Artiles, a five-year legislator and home-improvement contractor while Florida’s part-time legislature is not in session, has also sponsored legislation that allows the state to charge women for committing crimes while pregnant (on top of any other criminal charges) and that would provide for the “lifetime monitoring of sex offenders”."

Uh, since when does being pregnant stop you from being charged for a crime and making them lifetime sex offenders for life just because they are pregnant when they committed a crime makes no sense at all. Also, does that mean that they're also labelling the fetus a sex offender? lol........

Edit: And since when is commiting a crime while pregnant itself a crime*? That's badly redundant.

*Yeah I know one could argue that the woman is endangering the life of her unborn child, but that's completely different from labelling them sex offenders.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 04:18:24 pm by smjjames »
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Neonivek

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #160 on: March 13, 2015, 04:25:19 pm »

Maybe they believe that doing a crime while pregnant will turn your unborn child into a sex offender.
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smjjames

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #161 on: March 13, 2015, 04:36:35 pm »

Actually, I think I misread and the sex offender thing is separate, but the one about pregnant women makes no sense without more context.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #162 on: March 13, 2015, 04:42:36 pm »

Actually, I think I misread and the sex offender thing is separate, but the one about pregnant women makes no sense without more context.

I read it as committing any crime while pregnant is also a crime in and of itself. So a pregnant woman who steals would be charged with theft and with committing a criminal offence while pregnant.

Which is moronic.
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wierd

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2015, 04:55:23 pm »

Here's my take on the "Sex Offender" phenomenon. This is just opinion, you are free to disagree with it. I ask that you please respect it as opinion, and not try to convert me to some other point of view, or pass moral judgements.

--
We are too eager to brand people with this identification. (Sex offender) This dilutes the meaning.  This has been a problem with every attempt to enforce public transparency with a perceived offence like this.

Historically, we have the "P" and "A" brands applied by the east india company to pirates, and by old world courts to women found guilty of adultery.  Both were applied too aggressively.  "The Scarlet Letter" focuses on the latter quite extensively.

In this modern age, we have teenagers being branded as sex offenders for life for sharing nudie pics of each other, and other absurdities. 

The base of this problem is still the same: Moral outrage.  Like always, and as always will be, "Morality" is a spectrum, not black and white. (I am going to pick on a prominent, but not yet discussed to my knowledge, issue here.) Some people are literally outraged that teenagers would take pics OF THEMSELVES, and send them to romantic interests. It offends their sensibilities, and they feel that broad-brush application of laws in these circumstances are fine, just, and proper. "Kids should be outside playing, not taking nude selfies"-- etc.  The kids, however, are just being sexual, like adolescents have always been. The problem is the adults who dont want to accept this simple reality, and instead cling to an ideal moral fantasy where their kids dont have genitals.

Labels like "Sexual Predator" need to be reserved for individuals who have recidivism; actual predators, who satisfy their desires through forceful sexual conduct with others, and cannot find satisfaction any other way.  I dislike the term "Sex Offender". We seem to have developed a culture that is overly easy to offend-- That way lies madness, as literally anything can be offensive to another person. Burping in public, for instance.  Or, perhaps simply whistling while walking down the street.  Some people find homosexual sex to be offensive, for instance.  Others consider even masturbation to be sexually offensive.  What one generation finds "Sexually Offensive", another will laugh at and ridicule.  "Showing ankle", or instance.

Consider for instance, the culturally accepted views of the ancient Greeks, concerning erestes and eromenos.  There was actual sex in these relationships, but due to what was considered offensive TO THEM, the "acceptable" kind featured only "Intercrural" sex.  Today, if somebody tried to have that kind of relationship, they would get the great big sexual predator label stuck to them.  That behaviour was considered "Normal" to ancient Greeks.

Moral based labels are by their very nature, subjective, officious, and unrealistic. EVERY generation believes that they "Know the truth" of the matter, and every generation speaks a different "Truth."

It is my personal opinion that the whole "it makes me offended!" thing needs to be thrown out.  To fashionistas, wearing clothes from the discount rack is offensive. Should bargain shoppers be legally penalized?  Same basic idea!  Or perhaps Vegans-- Eating meat is offensive to them, should they be allowed to tell other people what they can and cant eat? The very idea that somebody should have some kind of right to "Not be offended" is absurd.

There needs to be an understood delineation between "Things that I find squicky" and "Things that need to be illegal."

Things that need to be illegal? Things that harm people, or that cause unfair circumstances that can cause harm. (Things like rape, stealing, false testimony, and the like fall into this category.)

Things that you find squicky?  Mind your own business. ;P


In relation to the "Pregnant woman commits crime" absurdity; it's a leftover from more victorian dealings, where capital punishment was handed out like candy.  Killing the unborn child by commuting sentence on a found guilty pregnant mother was considered morally monsterous-- so in a silly bout of letigious absurdity, they made committing crimes while pregnant into a crime.  That'll stop those pregnant criminals!

Again, moral subjectivism, given weight of law.  Absurd.
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Neonivek

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Re: Transgender Bathrooms
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2015, 05:14:19 pm »

Well checking out what gets you on the sex offenders list

No you are right we do dish out the sex offender title really easily.

What was originally supposed to be a protective list so people could keep themselves away from someone who could potentially harm them, has pretty much become an extra layer of punishment for sexual related crimes.

http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/nsor/sortab1.htm

Not that I really support the sex offender's list even if it was working the way people believe it is supposed to... Since there is something to be said about rehabilitative justice and how such a list is contrary to such a thing.

This is ignoring the places where if your on a sex offender's list that you actually have to announce you are a sex offender.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 05:16:47 pm by Neonivek »
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