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[Cheeetar]

If both I and Toaster are doppelgangers, it takes just 1 mislynch and subsequent nightkill to reach vote parity between doppelgangers and non-doppelgangers. The possible existence of another third party makes matters more worrying.

Spoiler: Not really... (click to show/hide)

    Cheetar = 2
    Jim Groovester = 1
    Persus13 = 1
    Shakerag = 1
    Deus Asmoth = 1
    UXLZ = 1
    Scripten = 1
    Tiruin = 1
    zombie urist = 1
    Toaster = 2

3 Man Scumteam; Assume Enchanters = Scum
So 6 vs 5. Assuming clarity in vote.


    notquitethere - Town Telepath
    pisskop - Town Reporter
    flabort - Town Vigilante
    ToonyMan - Town War Vet
    mastahcheese - Doppelganger Observant Guard

    TheDarkStar - Alien Spore Spreader (Infestor)

Erm. There are 10 people alive, yeah? 1 mislynch and 1 night kill leaves 8 alive, 3 of which are scum. 5 town votes vs 1 non-enchanter dopp + 2 enchanter dopps = 5v5.

[Tiruin]

If both I and Toaster are doppelgangers, it takes just 1 mislynch and subsequent nightkill to reach vote parity between doppelgangers and non-doppelgangers. The possible existence of another third party makes matters more worrying.

Spoiler: Not really... (click to show/hide)

    Cheetar = 2
    Jim Groovester = 1
    Persus13 = 1
    Shakerag = 1
    Deus Asmoth = 1
    UXLZ = 1
    Scripten = 1
    Tiruin = 1
    zombie urist = 1
    Toaster = 2

3 Man Scumteam; Assume Enchanters = Scum
So 6 vs 5. Assuming clarity in vote.


    notquitethere - Town Telepath
    pisskop - Town Reporter
    flabort - Town Vigilante
    ToonyMan - Town War Vet
    mastahcheese - Doppelganger Observant Guard

    TheDarkStar - Alien Spore Spreader (Infestor)

Erm. There are 10 people alive, yeah? 1 mislynch and 1 night kill leaves 8 alive, 3 of which are scum. 5 town votes vs 1 non-enchanter dopp + 2 enchanter dopps = 5v5.

I miscounted. It should be 7v5 in that scenario, not 6. Meaning we have 7 here who are innocent (or third-party) and 3 who are dopp.

[Scripten]

Jim Groovester:

Persus13 protects Scripten.
Deus Asmoth protects Persus13.

This verifies that Scripten is a War Vet as he claims, and it also prevents all three from performing the night kill. I.E., if Persus13 doesn't visit Scripten, Scripten will know since he won't try to kill Persus13; if Scripten does something besides being a War Vet Persus13 and Deus Asmoth will know since there won't be a kill attempt (A dopp War Vet can not perform then nightkill and passively kill people in the same night); if Deus Asmoth doesn't protect Persus13 then everybody will know since Persus13 will be dead.

I'm not sure if I will actually be informed of a failure of my role, is the only problem. Last night, I didn't get anything when you tried to visit me. (Though, since ZU roleblocked you, it may not have registered as a failed kill from my end, but a failed attempt to investigate me, and thus never actually gotten me any flavor over PM.)

Tiruin:

Could you please address this post? And kindly stop trying to twist my case on you to "she was absent so scum." Thank you.

Scripten: Prior to all this, could I ask why you're very direct in wanting me lynched overall? Could you summarize and outline the reasons on why? The causes on why those reasons are reasonable, too?

I think I've done this already.

But essentially, you haven't really contributed any content or done any scumhunting. I mean, I get that you're a PR, but so are the rest of us. Not only that, but the only person you've pushed against so far has been me. Since today has started, you've established no clear reads on the majority of players. I mean, here's your last reads list:

Cheetar= Leaning town, with reservations
    Jim Groovester= Null leaning town
    Persus13= Null maybe leaning town
    Shakerag= Null
    Deus Asmoth= Null
    UXLZ = Null
    Scripten = "Leaning scum, which I should really post my big post to note."
    zombie urist = Null
    Toaster = Null

The last two were summarized into a single word: "neutral". I get that they were lurky, but surely you have something on them? And again, I get the lack of net. But you haven't actually even shown us abbreviated versions of your case on me, other than that you thought I was scum for scumreading you. There's also the posting style you're using, with lots of sentence fragments and tons of fluff without much in the way of content. I've seen your town and scum games and, while each game is a little different, your town game is much more coherent and formulated. I think you're quite nice and fun to play with, but I also still think you're scum this game.

Can you take another look at Toaster and Zombie Urist and tell me what you think of them? Doesn't have to be long. In fact, I'd prefer brevity.

Regarding Today's Lynch:

I'm happy lynching either Tiruin or Toaster today. I'm more convinced that Tiruin is actually scum, but Toaster is also a possibility, and I'm not sure how much I like like the idea of him being free all night.

[Deus Asmoth]

Jim Groovester:

Persus13 protects Scripten.
Deus Asmoth protects Persus13.

This verifies that Scripten is a War Vet as he claims, and it also prevents all three from performing the night kill. I.E., if Persus13 doesn't visit Scripten, Scripten will know since he won't try to kill Persus13; if Scripten does something besides being a War Vet Persus13 and Deus Asmoth will know since there won't be a kill attempt (A dopp War Vet can not perform then nightkill and passively kill people in the same night); if Deus Asmoth doesn't protect Persus13 then everybody will know since Persus13 will be dead.

I'm not sure if I will actually be informed of a failure of my role, is the only problem. Last night, I didn't get anything when you tried to visit me. (Though, since ZU roleblocked you, it may not have registered as a failed kill from my end, but a failed attempt to investigate me, and thus never actually gotten me any flavor over PM.)

Well, Tooney should know whether you'd get informed or not since I stopped him from killing pisskop. UXLZ could see if he'sstill hanging around in the deadchat.

Regarding Today's Lynch:

I'm happy lynching either Tiruin or Toaster today. I'm more convinced that Tiruin is actually scum, but Toaster is also a possibility, and I'm not sure how much I like like the idea of him being free all night.

Well, Zombie could roleblock Toaster instead of Shakerag (I don't think it'd make all that much difference to the plan), though I'm concerned that Zombie is scum as well which could result in Persus dying to Scripten.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
zombie urist: Cheeetar
Jim Groovester: zombie urist
Tiruin: Deus Asmoth, Scripten
UXLZ: Persus13


Day ends ~4pm Pacific Thursday

Mephansteras: If a War Vet is performing a night kill (via being a doppelganger) are people that interact with him still killed?

No, the War Vet's ability is a night action, so if a Dopp War Vet is killing they are not using that ability.

Meph, if I'm protecting Persus and he blocks a kill, can I keep him alive or will his ability kill him regardless?

Yes, the Bodyguard ability redirects the night kill to themselves, so a Guardian would be able to prevent one kill on him. (Note that a Heroic Bodyguard can block any number of kill attempts in a night, so a Guardian would only be able to prevent one of those)

[Cheeetar]

Neat. Persus13 and Deus Asmoth can link together into one greater form to be invincible, assuming the dopps only have a single kill and they're both town.

[Scripten]

Wait a sec.

Wouldn't an external scum kill be able to get through DA? He can only protect Persus13 from my vet kill, not that as well as the scum kill. Granted, we'd have flavor to confirm who performed the kill, but that doesn't entirely clear anyone.

[Shakerag]

Just a bit more brainstorming as to connections and whodunit in regards to the N2 kill:

Cheeetar - No connections. 
Toaster - Possibly implicates Tiruin as being aligned.
UXLZ - Strongly implicate Shakerag as being aligned.
Shakerag - Potentially implicates UXLZ and whoever I'm "tracking" D4 as being aligned.
Scripten - Weakly connects to zombie urist, Persus13, Jim, Tiruin
Deus Asmoth - Potential connection to Persus13
Persus13 - Weakly connection to Scripten, Potential connection to Deus Asmoth
Jim Groovester - Weak connection to mastahcheese, Strong connection to zombie urist, Potential connection to Scripten, Weak connection to Tiruin
Tiruin - Weak connection to Toaster, Strong connection to zombie urist, weak connection to Jim
zombie urist - weak connection to Scripten, Strong connection to Tiruin, Strong connection to Jim

So, from a purely information gathering stance, I'd go with Tiruin or zombie urist as the lynch for today.

[Toaster]

I'm a bit worried there's an X-Factor out there we're missing; a single third party is unusually small, IMO.

Meph:  If a Guard prevents a Hivemind conversion (by getting converted instead of the intended target) is the intended target aware of anything?


Scripten:   Guardians can only prevent one kill, so yes.  If two kills were targeted at Persus, it'd be randomized which one that Persus was protected by.  Persus could claim in dead chat if he survived one kill attempt (and I assume source) before dying to the second, though.

I'm pretty sure Zombie Urist is a Psychic Warden, considering I was psychically blocked N1. (This is what I was talking about when I said that we're pretty obviously not aligned or we're both town.)

Can you please clarify the part in parentheses?



Shakerag:

zombie urist - weak connection to Scripten, Strong connection to Tiruin, Strong connection to Jim

So, from a purely information gathering stance, I'd go with Tiruin or zombie urist as the lynch for today.

The only problem with a ZU lynch is (assuming he's telling the truth) his ability is useful in keeping people honest.



Does it bother anyone else that Scripten was twice foiled from killing someone thanks to ZU?  It seems awfully convenient to me.



As far as The Plan goes, let's see...

Cheeetar:  Nobody, past or present
Jim Groovester:  Nobody past, Tiruin and Shakerag N3
Persus13:  Nobody past, Scripten and Deus N3
Shakerag:  Nobody past, ZU N3
Deus Asmoth:  Pisskop N1, Scripten and Persus N3
UXLZ: Shakerag N1 and N2, Shakerag N3
Scripten: ZU N1 [block], Deus and Persus N3
Tiruin: Got a valid result on Toaster N1, nobody N3
zombie urist: Scripten and Jim N1/2 (uncontested block claim), Tiruin N2, Shakerag N3
Toaster: Tiruin N1, nobody N3

While several of these verifications are "this person didn't perform the NK on a specified night" they are better than nothing.  Cheeetar is the only person without any validation any night.  I don't like that, but at least I read him as town.

Now, the other half of plan issues:

Cheeetar:  Can perform NK.
Jim Groovester:  Can lie about his result and incriminate someone.  Could still act as reporter to fool Tiruin.
Persus13: Could not follow plan, but that wouldn't really help the scum team.  Is pretty bound to plan unless Deus is also scum.
Shakerag:  Can lie about his result and incriminate someone.  Potentially covered as well if ZU is scumbuddy.
Deus Asmoth:  Could not follow plan and get Persus killed.
UXLZ:  Could perform NK, but is being tracked by Shakerag.  Would need Shakerag dead or as a scumbuddy to cover.
Scripten:  Can't really do anything.
Tiruin:  Can lie about her result and incriminate someone.
zombie urist:  Could block someone else.  Worst case is probably Deus, which would get Persus killed.
Toaster:  Could perform NK.

ZU or Deus could get Persus killed, and Tiruin, Jim and Shakerag could lie to incriminate someone.  Persus and Scripten are pretty locked to the plan, so they're very covered.  Everyone else could just do the kill (risking getting tracked by Jim.)

Hm.

Tiruin is really in no position to contribute anything to the discussion, since she could easily lie about her results (either to frame someone or to perform the NK.)  The only way Jim could be anything but Find is if he performed the NK, and he'd then still be accountable for his result.  One of his scumbuddies (unless it's Scripten and Persus) could cover for him.

[Scripten]

I'm pretty sure Zombie Urist is a Psychic Warden, considering I was psychically blocked N1. (This is what I was talking about when I said that we're pretty obviously not aligned or we're both town.)

Can you please clarify the part in parentheses?

Why would scum waste their roleblock on one of their scumbuddies? I mean, you can disbelieve that I was blocked, of course, but assuming I'm telling the truth, can you explain why ZU would roleblock me instead of just ask me to keep my guard down? I can't, so either we're both town or we're unaligned.

Does it bother anyone else that Scripten was twice foiled from killing someone thanks to ZU?  It seems awfully convenient to me.

Convenient how, exactly? Are you saying that I lied about my role or that I'm on a scumteam with ZU?

I'm not sure what the implication here is other than that the coincidence is weird.

[UXLZ]

I'll try and post more once I'm at school, but for now.

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

Say this to the thread:

if you're going to lynch Toaster or Cheetar, it has to be Cheetar: he claimed enchanter D1 and so had to not do anything lest he be followed by pisskop, the claimed reporter. Toaster hadn't made a claim so could have targeted Toony safely. Why would Toaster waste a night doing nothing and have Cheese give up his night action to perform the kill? Don't lynch Toaster today.

Better yet, don't lynch either and lynch someone who is actually scummier. Where's the isolated look-backs on players? Where's the interaction analysis? Who had the weakest cases each day? Who's votes today don't make any sense? We've got time to figure this out.

[Mephansteras]

Meph:  If a Guard prevents a Hivemind conversion (by getting converted instead of the intended target) is the intended target aware of anything?

Yes, people are aware that they were saved from an attack of some sort, although the protected person would not know anything about the type of attack.

[UXLZ]

Meph:

Do you know yet for certain what's going to be happening in regards to your LA trip? Will you be ending the day on time or extending it to over the weekend?

[Mephansteras]

Meph:

Do you know yet for certain what's going to be happening in regards to your LA trip? Will you be ending the day on time or extending it to over the weekend?

I am hoping to end the day on time and just have an extended night. Or, if people decide to extend the day, it'll be pushed through Monday when I get back.

[Jim Groovester]

(Though, since ZU roleblocked you, it may not have registered as a failed kill from my end, but a failed attempt to investigate me, and thus never actually gotten me any flavor over PM.)

This is correct. I never made it out of my house.

Well, Zombie could roleblock Toaster instead of Shakerag (I don't think it'd make all that much difference to the plan), though I'm concerned that Zombie is scum as well which could result in Persus dying to Scripten.

I suppose that's an option. Blocking an Enchanter also eliminates their extra vote for the following day, if I remember correctly, so that lessens the likelihood of a town insta-loss in the event that Toaster is scum.

Does it bother anyone else that Scripten was twice foiled from killing someone thanks to ZU?  It seems awfully convenient to me.

What are you suggesting? Scripten, Persus13, zombie urist, and myself can't all be scum, so at some point dumb luck has to come into play.

if you're going to lynch Toaster or Cheetar, it has to be Cheetar: he claimed enchanter D1 and so had to not do anything lest he be followed by pisskop, the claimed reporter. Toaster hadn't made a claim so could have targeted Toony safely. Why would Toaster waste a night doing nothing and have Cheese give up his night action to perform the kill? Don't lynch Toaster today.

I'm going to punch a hole in this assertion right here.

I asked Meph just now, and it's possible that mastahcheese was, in fact, guarding somebody on N1. This certainly opens the makeup of the scumteam a bit more. We don't have to operate under the assumption that all the scumteam has night actions.

So, yeah, we can lynch Toaster or Cheeetar or anybody else who doesn't have a night action.