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[Deus Asmoth]

ZU, why is it more important that UXLZ vote someone than Jim or Shakerag?

It's not more important and Jim and Shakerag definitely do need to vote too.

Then why'd you only call UXLZ on it?

[Scripten]

Toaster:

Scripten:  Two people does not a wagon make.  Don't act the victim here.

Who's playing victim? I'm just mentioning that it's kind of funny how that happened. Are you worried that I'm analyzing votes laid on me?

A low content section?  I summed up every vote you've made for the entire game.  If you want to discount your latest vote as your best one, then you're still calling D1 a "low content section."

D1 IS a low-content section of the game. Most of the day was consumed with PM shenanigans and the pisskop-flabort fight. (Where flabort ended up being town and fully truthful about his role.)

I'm not criticizing your hunting as a whole, I'm going after the conclusive part at the end; the vote.   You can go "this one could maybe possibly be scum" all day and it doesn't count if you don't end up at some point with "Yep, this one right here is scum for sure."

Sorry, I don't play the whole self-build-up game like some others do. I report my reads at roughly the level that I feel them. I don't say someone is 100% certainly scum unless I know they are scum. Specifically, look at the second-to-last completed BM game where I was a cop.

Are you saying that you do not have any problem with my scumhunting?

There's a wide difference between being assertive (good) and being an asshole (bad).  You've been wimpy (bad in the other direction.)  If you can't convince someone you're serious in your attack, then you're not going to get taken seriously.  If you're not being taken seriously, then you're not going to get results.

That, or you're leaving yourself a place to backpedal when your "suspicions" flip town.

Tell me where I've backpedaled and this might have some merit. I have no qualms mentioning who I wanted lynched yesterday: Tiruin, Toonyman, and TDS. (Possibly Deathsword/ZU, but that slot got replaced.) Two of these have flipped, and Toonyman was town. You're essentially scumreading me for something I could have done rather than what I am doing.

I've called her out more than once, but she did say in her last post that details on her vote were coming.  I'm giving her that one chance to come up with a real case.  Since you and others have harped on her for doing that exact thing, it'd be a bit redundant to add on there, and there's already plenty of noise in this thread.

And not ignoring, but paying them much less mind because they're not central to my case, which this is now twice you've misunderstood.  Did you miss my addendum as well?

You complain about me being toothless, but you're doing exactly the same thing as I, while simultaneously not voting Tiruin. I think she's scum and I highly doubt the post she has coming will have any content to it at all. (I will be carefully watching where and how your vote goes around her today, just so you know.) I was edging that way on D1, but the wagon was going nowhere because of that stupid gambit/PM kerfuffle that had next to no actual content in it.

You need to check your facts on this one.

No.  No sir.  You can't make a statement like this.  Even if you aren't actually asking for advice, it's blatantly obvious you're trying to farm out your vote (and thus responsibility for it) right here.  That's a cowardly scum move of a high order.

Facts checked. Did you expect people to miss the fact that the reply you quoted here was posted in response to Flabort and not myself?

[Jim Groovester]

What are your thoughts on... *rolls dice*.
(9)
Scripten?

Is twenty questions over yet? My answer will be apparent later on in my post.

  Jim, your reads are nonexistent.  Theyre situationally flexible and thus scummy as sin.

Okay.

What crappy roleclaim?

The one where you said you did the thing that you actually didn't end up doing.
 

Or how about that theyre an affront to townies everywhere.  You post a wall of one line "meh"  reads and have the gall to ask why I find it suspicious?
  You dont have any real reads because you likely dont need to actually scumhunt.

Why do you even want to talk to me if all you're going to do is call me scummy repeatedly with no new innovation on your case?

  Right.  Just like my suspicion of UX, or of Tiruin, or of you.  Oh, wait.

Okay.

Considering he was not even a little like that with other players, I'd say the affectionate nicknames and prancing is a good sign I'm on the right track.

You've called me nicknames.

Big Bad Jimbo

Big Jim

Would you say you're pretty affectionate of me?

I thought not.


Toaster, you missed my question.

Scripten, you also missed my question.

Also, how come in your responses to zombie urist's and Toaster's votes you show teeth and combativeness, but in your response to mastahcheese's vote, you're diplomatic, even going so far as to compliment mastahcheese's playstyle?

What's so special about mastahcheese that it warranted a friendlier tone compared to all the other people voting you?

Scripten.

[Scripten]

Scripten, UXLZ, Deus Asmoth, what do you make of mastahcheeses's votes on pisskop, Scripten, TheDarkStar, and his Day 1 reads? Do they suggest anything?

Pisskop: Tried to push a lynch on Pisskop to protect Flabort. Since I didn't see Flabort as scum, I see this as a non-aligned interaction. His push was actually a lot stronger on pisskop than on anyone else during the day. I imagine he didn't expect to die overnight, so I'm not quite ready to say that he was looking to form fake associative reads for the town. I would say that he was making an actual push on pisskop here and wanted to drive a mislynch on a player with already poor town cred.

Scripten: Most of what I can say about this was said in response to him. The fact that he left the pisskop wagon is weird. I don't know what to think of it other than that he was seeking to create WIFOM. Like I said, I don't imagine he was trying to fake distancing from other players, so I dunno. His fake scumhunting didn't really have any points I could refute and, at that point, I honestly had a minor townread on him.

TDS: Mentioned shakerag, which makes me nervous. At this point in the game, I could see him being protective of his scumbuddies to a small extent. No real read since TDS flipped third party. Everyone's looking for aliens, after all. His insistence in this post that I wasn't being voted or scumhunted seems to be affecting the game today, so there is that.

Reads: Lots of third party reads, which makes sense in hindsight. Scum would be looking for third-party players to lynch. His third party reads may be town, but its really hard to tell. Trying to decipher scum reads post-mortem is WIFOM-bait, to be honest.

[Scripten]

Scripten, you also missed my question.

I thought I'd posted that already. Was sitting on my laptop from uni. Got it up now.

What's so special about mastahcheese that it warranted a friendlier tone compared to all the other people voting you?

I didn't think he was scum at the time. I'm getting scumreads from ZU (strong) and Toaster (weak-moderate) depending on Tiruin's alignment. I'm scumhunting them while also disputing their vote on me.

What's with the vote? Did I miss something and civility to someone who hasn't flipped scum yet is scummy now?

[Jim Groovester]

I didn't think he was scum at the time. I'm getting scumreads from ZU (strong) and Toaster (weak-moderate) depending on Tiruin's alignment. I'm scumhunting them while also disputing their vote on me.

What was your read on zombie urist at the time he voted you and you responded?

Is even weakly suspecting somebody (i.e., Toaster) enough of a reason to up your combativeness in your responses?

What's with the vote? Did I miss something and civility to someone who hasn't flipped scum yet is scummy now?

You have an awkward, friendly interaction with mastahcheese, flipped scum, that's inconsistent with your interactions in other similar cases. The theory goes that he's your scumbuddy and you don't quite know how to interact with him in a way that looks natural.

That's the reason for the vote.

[notquitethere]

Shakerag

As for your second part, it's just because I tend not to give a sanctified shit about a game after I'm dead, medium or no.  Also, at the time as I recall, there was no guarantee of a medium anyway.

Did you think copping a strop would make the vig feel sorry for you and not kill you?

NQT:  I may have missed an explanation somewhere, but why are you voting Tiruin instead of me/ZU?

I'm trying to push her to actually do something. When it comes to it, I'm happy to see you hang.


ZU

I guess but you also said you were going to advise Flabort on an alternative target but weren't going to do so because Shakerag was being defeatist, but it looks like in the end you did anyways so what do you say about that?

But I didn't actively advise Flabort to pick an alternative target, I just pointed out it might be dangerous to have killed Shakerag. It might have been! Do you know that it wasn't? What are you even getting at here? If Shakerag flips scum I'll be happy and it also won't reflect on my alignment.


Jim

I think Toaster is a survivor, in part because of Tiruin's PM confidant's survive results. Tiruin has been around doing stuff despite her lack of a vote or a case. Shakerag has done absolutely nothing of significance on Day 2, so of the three people you mentioned he would be the one I would be most willing to lynch.

Noted. And do you think Zombie Urist is more or less scummy than Shakerag?


Toaster

NQT:

(why would scum follow the person they intended to kill? As an alibi?)

Seems like a legit reason to me.

Maybe. Ugh, there's just too many people in this damn game that I want dead to have a clearer idea about.

One for you, though.  Let's assume for a second that Tiruin comes up with a case on someone that's satisfactory to you.  Who would you be voting then?  Is your desire to see Shakerag's flip for the associative tells high enough that you would hang him for it?

Yep 100% Shakerag murder for the info.

[UXLZ]

Currently posting from school during spare sessions, so I won't really be saying much here.

UXLZ:  Hurry up and vote someone.

Why are you worried about my vote?

Is twenty questions over yet? My answer will be apparent later on in my post.

Now that stuff is happening, yes.

UXLZ:  Is there any reason you had to roll for a random topic to talk about at this point?

Not really. I just did it 'cause I felt like it. 

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
pisskop: Cheeetar
zombie urist: Deus Asmoth
Scripten: Jim Groovester, Tiruin, Toaster
Shakerag: pisskop, Persus13
Tiruin: Scripten, notquitethere
UXLZ: zombie urist


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

[zombie urist]

ZU

I guess but you also said you were going to advise Flabort on an alternative target but weren't going to do so because Shakerag was being defeatist, but it looks like in the end you did anyways so what do you say about that?

But I didn't actively advise Flabort to pick an alternative target, I just pointed out it might be dangerous to have killed Shakerag. It might have been! Do you know that it wasn't? What are you even getting at here? If Shakerag flips scum I'll be happy and it also won't reflect on my alignment.

Just because you didn't "actively" advise Flabort to pick an alternative doesn't mean you didn't have in impact in his decision.

ZU, why is it more important that UXLZ vote someone than Jim or Shakerag?

It's not more important and Jim and Shakerag definitely do need to vote too.

Then why'd you only call UXLZ on it?

Because I was pretty sure Jim would get a vote soon and I wasn't really paying attention to Shakerag.

Why are you worried about my vote?

So I know you have suspects.

[Jim Groovester]

Britishism- being mardy, throwing your toys out of the pram

This explains nothing!

And do you think Zombie Urist is more or less scummy than Shakerag?

It's really a toss up.

Shakerag has done fuckall all day, but, you know, the weekend. zombie urist voted flabort at the last minute on Day 1 and I'm somewhat suspicious of his reasoning for voting UXLZ, even though some of the reasoning is justified.

I think between the two I'd consider zombie urist the slightly scummier one.

Have your opinions changed? How have they changed, if they have?
What made you change your mind from Scripten yesterday, (then flabort which you've posted about) to UXLZ today?

Scripten posted this huge post in response to mastahchees, so I don't really think they're scumbuddies. I can kinda see him being a survivor of some sort, but I don't think he's a doppleganger.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147607.msg5982358#msg5982358

I guess I'm ok with a Tiruin lynch, but I don't think she's the best option.

Hm.

So is UXLZ's lack of a vote your only reason for suspecting him?

[UXLZ]

So I know you have suspects.

Why are you asking for my vote and not for my suspects?

[Scripten]

What was your read on zombie urist at the time he voted you and you responded?

Is even weakly suspecting somebody (i.e., Toaster) enough of a reason to up your combativeness in your responses?

When he voted me? Not particularly strong, really. It's gotten much stronger since D2 began. That being said, I'm not sure what you mean by my response to his vote being aggressive. I called him out for his vote being weak, but beyond that, it wasn't that harsh.

You have an awkward, friendly interaction with mastahcheese, flipped scum, that's inconsistent with your interactions in other similar cases. The theory goes that he's your scumbuddy and you don't quite know how to interact with him in a way that looks natural.

This should give you a selection of my posts from one of my very first scum games ever. My scumbuddy was BlueBloodedToffee. Here is a link to a specific interaction. I've not been scum on this site yet, so I don't have any examples here. The only other scum game I have played is still going. See for yourself what my scum game is like and how I respond to my scumbuddies, then come back to me.

[Shakerag]

UXLZ:

UXLZ:  Is there any reason you had to roll for a random topic to talk about at this point?

Not really. I just did it 'cause I felt like it. 

So did you not feel that there was enough to talk about between D1 and the events so far in D2 that you had to come up with a random topic?


NQT:

Did you think copping a strop would make the vig feel sorry for you and not kill you?

Pffffbt.  No.  I was all but convinced flabort was going to shoot me, so I stopped caring about the game for real.  I can handle someone making a bullshit case on me.  I can handle someone shooting me in the night for bullshit reasons (although I may still be pissed).  But if you're going to say that you're going to shoot me and there's nothing I can do about it, then there's just no goddamn point to doing anything more.  Especially on D1.

I mean, seriously.  Assume I died N1.  And pretend I still gave a shit at the end of D1.  Do you really think there's anything I could have come up with that someone later on in the game is going to point back to and use that to clinch a lynch on a scum player?  Fuck no.  We both know that D1 in almost every game consists of running around like a moron and watching half the players glomp on to some numbnuts who either said something dumb or tried some "gambitz". 

Hell, you want to lynch me for info?  Be my guest.  Even if D1 wasn't a catastrophe for me, I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels trying to get a lead anyway.  You'd be doing me a favor at this point.

[Shakerag]

Scripten:

This should give you a selection of my posts from one of my very first scum games ever. My scumbuddy was BlueBloodedToffee. Here is a link to a specific interaction. I've not been scum on this site yet, so I don't have any examples here. The only other scum game I have played is still going. See for yourself what my scum game is like and how I respond to my scumbuddies, then come back to me.

Do you really think anyone is going to do that and/or give half a shit?  If you're really scum in this game, and you're volunteering "dur hur hey guyz look at me be scum here" do you really think anyone is going to go "gee, Scripten isn't acting like he did when he was scum in that game, and everyone knows that you always act exactly the same across all games when you're scum, so Scripten is confirmed town now"?

This is why meta arguments are so goddamn stupid.  If anyone ever told me I have a pattern as a specific alignment, I would immediately change my behaviour if for no reason than to fuck with everyone who wants to make meta arguments.