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[Cheeetar]

No, 4maskwolf, the correct response to another player displaying bad play is not to quit the game and thus have to be replaced.

[4maskwolf]

No, 4maskwolf, the correct response to another player displaying bad play is not to quit the game and thus have to be replaced.

Ah, see, and that's where our views differ.

You keep bashing my play as "bad play" without actually having seen the outcome, just because you dislike my playing style.  My play isn't "bad play" any more than the results it acheives, and those results are yet to be seen.

Once more, quit your personal attacks and play the game.

[flabort]

...mmmm.
That didn't go over as expected.

I thought it would ease Wolf's mind that I was doing it for a good purpose if I revealed too.

I guess not.

Uh... my brains not in this tonight.

[Cheeetar]

If I'm attacking your play, it's not a personal attack. No, I'm not going to wait until the outcome of your play to point out the flaws in it. That's silly, and wouldn't work for most things- what if a mafia member proposed lynching everybody but him and got upset with people criticising his idea because they hadn't seen the outcome of it?

[4maskwolf]

I'm not going to discuss this with you beyond this post, Cheeetar, because I don't want to take up a whole bunch of the thread with our disagreement.  But you're comparing two disparate events: one, a gambit intended to shake things up, the other, abjectly stupid play.

[flabort]

Flabort, why the hell did you claim your role? How could you possibly say that it was an accident to reveal that you were being PMed when the first thing you said after being PMed was 'looks like there's people PMing already hint hint!' and were then completely upfront in answering a question about it?

Did I say "hint hint"? No, goddamn it leave me alone my head hurts.

But I'll answer.  Ugh, I just won't be happy about it.

Why the hell did I claim? Because now there's two goddamn priority targets for the scum, IF 4mask is telling the truth and not lying like I suspect. How deep DOES his rabbit hole go, if he claims we've got no idea? Pretty damn deep, probably past scum hell and back. And now there's two targets for any protector/doctor role... ugh, should have checked if there was a possibility of those, but I guess there are bodyguards. Hopefully there's one of the guardian variety, let's see if they pick me or mask.

It was an accident because I figured everyone was already sending PMs everywhere and figured if anyone was collecting a lot of them it was cheese. But then it wasn't, and when someone attacked me for saying that I off-handedly remarked that I had recieved one from 'the gambit guy'. OK? And then he blew up about it and voted me.

flabort, how did 4mask blow up? I saw some shaky logic in his answer, sure, but not what I would call blowing up. How would poking a hole in his gambit by killing him not have made you look like scum? How does outing yourself do any more to put holes in his gambit than you'd already done by revealing his reporter claim to the scum team?

How it wouldn't have made me look like scum: Flavor. Someone already accused me of not taking into account that you can tell the difference between a scum kill and a vig kill, and a vet kill, etc.
How does outing myself put a hole in his gambit? It goddamn doesn't. It's my own bloody gambit but I'm not being sneaky and underhanded about it.
How did he blow up? See here, double post; he's sarcastic, OMGUS, thought that at the time I blew his whole house of cards away, and then angrily says "can't you take a joke?", completely overreacting. Also third post where he's angry and condescending like he's so much more knowledgeable than me. Excuse me, but if you're part of the "uninformed majority", you shouldn't have that attitude, you should know only as much as I do at this point.

Posting from right before class.

Flabort, so you outed a private investigative power role claim on Day 1 to everyone, including the scum? How is that pro-town to tell everyone that. You could have just summarized the gambit if you wanted to.

Yes. If he thought it was a good idea to reveal to three random people, then he should have been prepared to reveal to everyone else. I think that either he was lying to us or extremely short sighted, in which case he's now taking RIA by saying he didn't plan for me to do this. YEAH, I'M IN A BAD MOOD AND SAYING YOU'RE ACTING REALLY STUPID RIGHT NOW 4MASK. Because work is a BITCH, I HATE my job, and EVERYTHING keeps breaking down around my FUCKING EARS. YES, I'm in a bad enough mood to invoke the F-word. Go ahead and search my post history for that, it NEVER happens.

I did summarize the gambit at first. Here. And everyone accused me of being sneaky. Bleh.

Stop claiming

Already done, can't go back now. Bleh.

flabort: What is this bussing nonsense?  The gambit was involving N1 kills.  Me being lynched during the day means exactly jackshit.  Also, how did outing the gambit serve the same purpose as killing me, and why would a townie out another possible townie?  That, and you say that you were going to poke a hole in my gambit.  Why?

You always bus, don't you remember CYOmasquerade? The conversation about ToS? And that other time recently?
If I killed you as a vig, and you flipped scum, which you would have with such a poorly devised gambit, then it would have proved by flavor that you were expecting someone to try and target you, and you were trying to DoppVet them.
As far as poking a hole in your gambit, I was trying to prove to you that it was ill-concieved from the get-go. If you were going to gambit as town, you wouldn't have invited the scum to kill you. As scum, though, you could have picked three targets that weren't scum, so that you could force them to target you and kill them all.


Bleh, I probably missed something. Let me know if I did, I'm going to go turn all the lights off and have a shower.

[Jim Groovester]

Why are so many people so bad this game.

Ugh.

The issue though is that the answer of 'No' is always suspect because it's the 'perfect' one.

You're overthinking this.

A scum player will answer no, but a town player will also answer no. Why should a town player fear answering honestly just because a scum player will answer the same way as him? He shouldn't.

You don't need to think about WIFOM at every stage of the game. I certainly don't.

I'm going to get to the bottom of why 4mask decided that this was a good idea, and I'm going to keep pressing him on it.

Why?

What are you hoping to reveal?

You would only do this if you suspected him, so what do you suspect him for?

Furthermore, why was it necessary to out him? Why not grill him over PMs?

As for why hide those names, I'm sure they want nothing to do with this anymore, and since they could be town I don't want them killed. Yet.

Why would they be killed for being the recipients of PMs?

Your concern doesn't make any sense.

Also, I'm a human vigilante

gj claiming numpnuts

Phase One:

Phase Two:

I like how you have phases like you planned this or that it was a good plan in the first place.

So, if you were killed like you apparently wanted to happen, who was supposed to carry the torch of your gambit after your death?

You keep bashing my play as "bad play" without actually having seen the outcome, just because you dislike my playing style.  My play isn't "bad play" any more than the results it acheives, and those results are yet to be seen.

This is not something you can say in a game of mafia. Discussing how people play and whether they are playing well or poorly is fundamental to actually playing the game, so demanding that people withhold judgment until 'the results' present themselves is unreasonable. It's also impossible, because such discussion about whether a player is playing well or poorly is critical to determining 'the results.'

Flabort acted scummy in telling everyone about the gambit.

. . .

I've read up through page 10; I'll have other responses and questions later.

This would be a lazy, scummy bandwagon if not for your last line here. It may still be a lazy, scummy bandwagon.

I'm interested to see the rest of your content.

[4maskwolf]

You know what the problem in this game is, and all games of mafia in general?

Too many of you are stuck into the same old rut of how you think mafia should be played, and verbally beat down anyone who plays the game "the wrong way".  Just because you don't play that way does not make it "wrong" or "bad".  Your condescending attitudes towards others seem to be the entire crux of the reason why so many people left: that and your over-the-top combativeness over anything that doesn't fit your golden standard.

I'm not talking about you, flabort, I'm talking in this case about Jim Groovester, Cheeetar, probably ToonyMan, and likely a few others.

Jim: If I was killed by dopp, somebody "in the know" should have spilled the beans to everyone else of what happened to help narrow down who could be a dopp.  There was no "carrying the torch" there was just revealing the existance of the gambit.

[4maskwolf]

Sorry to do this Mephansteras.

Replacement request

[flabort]

Sorry to do this Mephansteras.

Replacement request

I'm sorry I shouldn't have swore.

[Scripten]

Gambits are not, in and of themselves, entirely antithetical to good mafia play. That being said, they should be considered as a balanced part of a scumhunting arsenal and employed when other tools are not working. I don't think this discussion is going to help us find scum, however. Perhaps we should start a topic discussing mafia theory and try to keep talk here directed at the game content.

P-Edit: Since 4maskwolf is replacing out, I'd like to advise people not to ask his replacement to verify his role or to talk about it. We should be keeping scum in the dark about whether the claim was real or not. WIFOM works both ways.

Now, specifically, I'd like to focus on the Flabort wagon.

4maskwolf: First vote on Flabort - Direct response to his reaction to 4maskwolf's gambit
Deus Asmoth: Has been engaging players and actively scumhunting - Confronts Flabort for poor logical reasoning
Persus13: Low content vote related to Flabort outing a potential PR - Persus13 has been very lurky so far
Toaster: Votes Flabort for claiming - Has been interacting frequently with the game thus far
Cheeetar: Votes Flabort for backhanded play and for claiming his role
TheDarkStar: Low content vote with no substance - Little content in this game thus far and this vote is bandwagon-y

I'd like to also mention that we've got a wagon on a player for charismatic reasons, which aren't usually alignment-indicative. A problem I see in many mafia games is that the player who is least able to represent themselves is lynched before players who are displaying scum motivation behind their posts. While I see poor logic and some anti-town behavior from Flabort, I'm not sure if I see scum motivation behind his posting yet. (Though it's admittedly hard to tell because Flabort strikes me as a scummy player regardless of his alignment.)

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: If I was killed by dopp, somebody "in the know" should have spilled the beans to everyone else of what happened to help narrow down who could be a dopp.  There was no "carrying the torch" there was just revealing the existance of the gambit.

Reporter's a threatening role, but there are more threatening ones out there. Why not claim an even more threatening role to make it even more likely to draw the night kill?

What impetus would the three players you chose have to reveal the PMs? Further, why would the rest of the players care about it on Day 2? Even if you do get killed, there's nothing to conclusively narrow it down to the three players you PMed.

Even if your gambit went according to plan, there's still a lot of parts of it that are out of your direct control, which makes it significantly less likely to produce the desired outcome.

If I was scum and I was one of the people you PMed, if the scumteam and I decided that you were the best target to kill, I would not be remotely worried that you PMed me and some other people your role. (The only thing worth hesitating about is whether you're a PWV or not.)

Sorry to do this Mephansteras.

Replacement request

The standard 4maskwolf play to receiving criticism, I see.

This is why it's so hard to take you seriously, because you throw a big tantrum and replace out whenever people have a negative opinion about your play.

It didn't phase me that you basically called me everything that's wrong with the subforum, but I'm livid that you would fuck over a game and all the players playing it because you can't take people having an issue with how you play.

[4maskwolf]

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[4maskwolf]

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[Tiruin]

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