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[mainiac]

I'm typically an anti-conspirafy theorist, but try this one from a devil's advocate: maybe they have no nukes. Maybe it's a double-bluff. People are so focused on determining whether a country has nukes they forget to check if they don't.

If so they would have done something a lot like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw
Israel went through a lot of steps to make the nukes they dont claim to have.  They stole a lot of secrets and acquired a lot of materials that point directly at a nuclear program.

And a lot of diverse intelligence agencies believe Israel has several nukes.

[smjjames]

... In terms of any of the potential candidates for this upcoming campaign I think most, if not all, candidates that have a reasonable chance of being nominated will probably have more geopolitical backbone than Obama.

Clinton? Definetly. Of the Republicans? No idea.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

... In terms of any of the potential candidates for this upcoming campaign I think most, if not all, candidates that have a reasonable chance of being nominated will probably have more geopolitical backbone than Obama.

Clinton? Definetly. Of the Republicans? No idea.

Clinton yes. She is definitely the strongest democrat by far. On the republican side, I imagine Christie would have backbone at the very least, and the more conservativre tend to be pretty aggressive in foreign affairs regardless of their... Skill in dealing with international politics.

[smjjames]

Yeah, Chris Christie seems somewhat like a modern day Teddy Roosevelt, or maybe his personality is closer to FDRs, not sure.

Also, the Dems are saying that the letter to Iran risks a war with Iran, but I don't see how it risks war with Iran unless the Republicans raise their metaphorical swords and shout 'CHARRRGGGEEE!!!!'.

I suppose it'd be the equivalent of a diplomatic insult causus belli.

[FearfulJesuit]

I've had an idea for a forum game. Every two to three days, a year goes past, starting in 2015, and continuing into the future, with the events decided by a combination of OP, random number generator, and player input. Players may vote not only on world events but also in American elections, in a highly convoluted process where player input is combined with demographic information and political makeup. As the weeks roll by, we get to see the American political landscape change over decades and decades.

Unfortunately, I probably am not good enough at stats to host something like this.

[Bauglir]

You don't have to be! You just need to convince us that the RNG told you to do whatever happens. I mean, what are we gonna do? Prove you wrong somehow?

[misko27]

As for the US-Israel relationship, I can't help but note the left-wing forum taking the generic left-wing view. Come on folks, speak with a little nuance.

Which is? If you're going to criticize an entire spectrum of the forum, maybe you should be a little less nuanced.

I'm referring to the tendency to treat the relationship as just like any other between the US and some backwards, authoritarian regime propped up by US dollars. It's not.

Israel has this odd thing where it's somehow shoved its dong so far down the US's throat you can stick an electrode up israel's arse and use it as a defibrillator. That's, to a large extent, where its disproportionate amount of influence comes from (in no small part due to the disgusting amount of military funding the states have poured into it over the years, on the regional level). Saudi Arabia or whatev' definitely would seem to be more influential nation states on the face of it, but they haven't managed to net the world's hyperpower as their own personal schlong gargler.

This comment in particular. It's actually somewhat offensive; Jesus Frumple you went for the nastiest damn thing you could think of huh? What lead you to think this was a good metaphor?

The reason why there is a Pro-Israel lobby is the same damn reason there was a Anti-Cuba lobby: The US has a lot of Jews (and quite a lot more Jews then Cubans). How many Jews? Nearly as many as Israel does: Five million. And the fact of the matter is that they, by a huge fucking degree, support Israel; and everyone else? Well, they don't have a dog in the fight. You've had a very passionate, very large minority out there who saw Israel (In a world only just post Holocaust) as putting everything they stand for on the line, so shockingly they evangelized for their cause. And they were pretty damn successful (JOOLUMINATI), so from there grew acceptance of their views. And since they were in a country in a position to aid Israel, that is what happened. So that's how we got to where we are today. And politicization aside, I think I can say that a strong majority of Americans are supportive of Israel, while the internet (which trends libertarian in general, and is thus opposed to foreign entanglements) is a minority.

And as for speaking with more nuance, I mean not choking on dicks. Hyperbole is one thing, but that's just nasty.

Yeah, Chris Christie seems somewhat like a modern day Teddy Roosevelt, or maybe his personality is closer to FDRs, not sure.

Also, the Dems are saying that the letter to Iran risks a war with Iran, but I don't see how it risks war with Iran unless the Republicans raise their metaphorical swords and shout 'CHARRRGGGEEE!!!!'.

I suppose it'd be the equivalent of a diplomatic insult causus belli.

In general, criticisms include: It helps absolve Iran of blame if the deal falls through ("We can't trust them to follow through on this"), it represents a breach of separation of powers, it undermines the President of the United States in front of foreign leaders, and it overall looks pretty petty.

[Frumple]

*waggles hand* Little bit more vitriol than strictly necessary, yeah. It's been a frustrating last year or three regarding our support of that joint, especially when they take our money, use parts of it to blow up non-combatants and civilian infrastructure, and then come over here and try to dictate foreign policy to us. Of course, they've been doing that for longer than the last year or three, but noticing et al.

... though, hyperbole aside, it is a fairly straightforward statement that a substantial portion of israel's influence comes from its extra-national support (Particularly from the US, of course), and that the country has an entirely disproportionate influence on US policy making.

Though nah, much of the higher level support of israel doesn't really have all that much to do with the jewish population (for all that the US side population is substantial, in a relative sense, it's still small enough and notably consistent in its voting patterns to the extent there's never really been a need to pander) -- it's tied up in eschatological nonsense on the part of some of our more influential crazies,* among other things. And from what I understand, modern support from american jews (especially the secular ones) for israel is... not the most enthusiastic, and getting worse as israel goes crazier.

*One of the fun little facts polling and whatnot has apparently pulled up is that american christians are more likely to believe the land in the area around israel was given to jews by god than the actual american jews are.

[SalmonGod]

The reason why there is a Pro-Israel lobby is the same damn reason there was a Anti-Cuba lobby: The US has a lot of Jews (and quite a lot more Jews then Cubans). How many Jews? Nearly as many as Israel does: Five million. And the fact of the matter is that they, by a huge fucking degree, support Israel; and everyone else? Well, they don't have a dog in the fight. You've had a very passionate, very large minority out there who saw Israel (In a world only just post Holocaust) as putting everything they stand for on the line, so shockingly they evangelized for their cause. And they were pretty damn successful (JOOLUMINATI), so from there grew acceptance of their views. And since they were in a country in a position to aid Israel, that is what happened. So that's how we got to where we are today. And politicization aside, I think I can say that a strong majority of Americans are supportive of Israel, while the internet (which trends libertarian in general, and is thus opposed to foreign entanglements) is a minority.

I think Christian fundamentalists are likely a bigger factor, as I mentioned before.  I don't know the numbers, but I think it's safe for me to assume the religious right in the U.S. numbers more than 5 million.  Supporting the Jewish state in Israel is seen as essential by many to fulfilling Christian biblical prophecy, and in my personal experience, Christian fundamentalists are even more dogmatic in their support on this basis than my Jewish acquaintances.

Ninja'd!

[TheDarkStar]

I've had an idea for a forum game. Every two to three days, a year goes past, starting in 2015, and continuing into the future, with the events decided by a combination of OP, random number generator, and player input. Players may vote not only on world events but also in American elections, in a highly convoluted process where player input is combined with demographic information and political makeup. As the weeks roll by, we get to see the American political landscape change over decades and decades.

Unfortunately, I probably am not good enough at stats to host something like this.

Call it "World Politics RTD".

[mainiac]

I've had an idea for a forum game. Every two to three days, a year goes past, starting in 2015, and continuing into the future, with the events decided by a combination of OP, random number generator, and player input. Players may vote not only on world events but also in American elections, in a highly convoluted process where player input is combined with demographic information and political makeup. As the weeks roll by, we get to see the American political landscape change over decades and decades.

Unfortunately, I probably am not good enough at stats to host something like this.

It would be far, far easier to start in 1947.

[RedKing]

I've had an idea for a forum game. Every two to three days, a year goes past, starting in 2015, and continuing into the future, with the events decided by a combination of OP, random number generator, and player input. Players may vote not only on world events but also in American elections, in a highly convoluted process where player input is combined with demographic information and political makeup. As the weeks roll by, we get to see the American political landscape change over decades and decades.

Unfortunately, I probably am not good enough at stats to host something like this.

It would be far, far easier to start in 1947.

Do you know how hard it would it be to get players to believe that a former cowboy actor could be elected President? And on top of that, that it wouldn't be Clint Eastwood?

[smjjames]

I've had an idea for a forum game. Every two to three days, a year goes past, starting in 2015, and continuing into the future, with the events decided by a combination of OP, random number generator, and player input. Players may vote not only on world events but also in American elections, in a highly convoluted process where player input is combined with demographic information and political makeup. As the weeks roll by, we get to see the American political landscape change over decades and decades.

Unfortunately, I probably am not good enough at stats to host something like this.

It would be far, far easier to start in 1947.

Do you know how hard it would it be to get players to believe that a former cowboy actor could be elected President 33? And on top of that, that it wouldn't be Clint Eastwood?

Uh, that's almost like saying how hard it would be to get players to believe that an African American could be president. Okay, no, that's a horrible analogy and I have no problems with African Americans.

Also, why 1947 specifically? Why not go back to 1912? Or 1860 even?

[Helgoland]

Start in 1789, and it might become real interesting.

[Reelya]

1789 is too late, start in 1607.