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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1569704 times)

mainiac

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #795 on: March 09, 2015, 05:56:45 pm »

But enough of the Democratic base distrusts Hillary that someone with a good enough ground game could steal the nomination.
As someone who doesn't really follow US politics: how can Clinton be the obvious Democratic candidate when the above is (presumably) true?

She has the support from the groups she needs to win the primary (donors, primary voters) but not the support of people she needs to get upvotes on the internet (nerds, young liberals).  Given that primaries are much more unpredictable then general elections, opinions on the internet are going to emphasize her downside.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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misko27

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #796 on: March 09, 2015, 06:06:11 pm »

Hillary is a powerful member of the party. I would not be surprised if her continued nomination is the result of favor pulling.

Hillary needs to get "put out of the way" by ceasing to be a relavant political force. Then she will stop being nominated.


The DNC needs to stop making politically motivated nominations (that focus around blatant corruption, and petty politics like race and gender) and instead start nominating candidates based on actual integrity with the party's stated goals.

However, with how flip/floppy most of them are, that would probably make them resort to names nobody has ever heard.
I'm not sure what you mean by DNC (There are two relevant organizations by that acronym:Democratic National Convention and Democratic National Committee). Either way, nominations don't come from the party leadership. You nominate yourself, and if you win primaries and caucuses you win the nomination.
Correct. At this point, it's essentially circular reasoning: Hillary is the frontrunner because she's the frontrunner, and nobody is stepping up to challenge her because she's the frontrunner; and since nobody else dares to take her on, she's the default candidate.
Circular reasoning implies false reasoning. The correct term would probably be self-fulfilling. And to be fair, in this chicken-or-egg scenario, she was intimidating to challengers before there were challengers to intimidate. She's not unassailable, but she's intimidating enough that none of the more influential people (who usually overlapped her base of support) were willing to challenge her, struggle for air, and risk hurting the party. Then, with the middle-party quiet, the outsiders (usually meaning more left-wing) were screwed, because they would have to duel Clinton, one-on-one, which outsiders don't have the resources and support to do (of course, one going in might trigger others, but no one decides things like that based on what might happen in the future). Put simply: she was a tough nut to crack, which gave her an air of unassailability, which made her actually unassailable.
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nenjin

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #797 on: March 09, 2015, 06:16:14 pm »

Quote
Either way, nominations don't come from the party leadership. You nominate yourself, and if you win primaries and caucuses you win the nomination.

Explicitly yes. But when you factor in the negotiations with the caucuses and the deal making, what looks good for the party etc..., the party leadership has a lot of power in the decision.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #798 on: March 09, 2015, 08:00:44 pm »

I wonder if Obama's going to endorse anyone- that's usually considered a faux pas for a sitting president, isn't it?
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RedKing

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #799 on: March 09, 2015, 08:07:22 pm »

I wonder if Obama's going to endorse anyone- that's usually considered a faux pas for a sitting president, isn't it?
Not if it's his VP. Though that's typically in the context of an uncontested primary. (Reagan endorsing Bush, Clinton endorsing Gore, etc.)
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Bauglir

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #800 on: March 09, 2015, 08:30:20 pm »

I might be persuaded to vote Clinton/Biden.

I suppose an arrangement by which they trade jobs every week is out of the question. Damn Constitution.[/NSA]
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Frumple

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #801 on: March 09, 2015, 09:35:24 pm »

So this happened. "This" being a few dozen republican senators writing an open letter to Iran in an attempt to shit on diplomatic relations thereto. Forget if it was brought up earlier or not, but eh.

And then Iran responded. It's... kinda' beautiful, just a titch.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #802 on: March 09, 2015, 09:40:42 pm »

God, remember when Republicans were at least competent at playing dirty foreign policy? Richard Nixon remembers.
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Bauglir

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #803 on: March 09, 2015, 09:44:12 pm »

God, remember when Republicans were at least competent at playing dirty foreign policy? Richard Nixon remembers.
The ol' Pepperidge Farms ploy, eh? I'm onto you.

More seriously, this doesn't even slightly surprise me. Remember, this is the party whose official goal in 2010 was to make Obama a 1-term president. That took precedence over policy or anything like that. Much as I might feel for conservative ideas of limited government every now and again, the party kind of went batshit crazy as soon as a vaguely black guy got elected.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #804 on: March 09, 2015, 09:49:59 pm »

God, remember when Republicans were at least competent at playing dirty foreign policy? Richard Nixon remembers.
The ol' Pepperidge Farms ploy, eh? I'm onto you.

More seriously, this doesn't even slightly surprise me. Remember, this is the party whose official goal in 2010 was to make Obama a 1-term president. That took precedence over policy or anything like that. Much as I might feel for conservative ideas of limited government every now and again, the party kind of went batshit crazy as soon as a vaguely black guy got elected.

I wonder if you could prosecute them for it? I mean, I wouldn't- it's the Dems' job not to stoop to the GOP's level of mud-slinging- but it is something you could do, isn't it?
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Frumple

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #805 on: March 09, 2015, 09:53:28 pm »

I've seen discussion about it... that and the earlier thing with whosename from wherever it was -- the one they brought in to babble to congress about whatev'. The problem is the most likely thing they're violating (the Logan Act, iirc) has never actually been enforced. It's probably illegal, and arguably some degree of treason, but it's hard to make stick something that's never been attempted to get stuck.
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Angle

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #806 on: March 09, 2015, 10:18:50 pm »

...That would be beautiful. Throw the lot of them in jail and let them howl. Fuck yeah.

It's not gonna happen, of course. But a man can dream...
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Bauglir

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #807 on: March 09, 2015, 10:24:12 pm »

Man, that's a pleasant dream, indeed. Sadly, if the Court of late is any indication, they'd either specifically rule against the prevailing political opinion at the time in order to avoid implications of being swayed by such transient things, or else they'd rule the whole thing is a purely political issue and wash their hands of the whole matter, ruling that political parties can do whatever they want.

Yes, I'm still salty about Bush v Gore. What of it?
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

smjjames

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #808 on: March 10, 2015, 12:04:43 am »

So this happened. "This" being a few dozen republican senators writing an open letter to Iran in an attempt to shit on diplomatic relations thereto. Forget if it was brought up earlier or not, but eh.

And then Iran responded. It's... kinda' beautiful, just a titch.

They certainly made a pretty nice jab at the republicans, lol.
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mainiac

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Is Terrifying
« Reply #809 on: March 10, 2015, 01:12:47 am »

As my friend put it "You know it's bad when the Irandian foreign minister sounds reasonable.... and correct".

It's pretty funny that Iranian officials understand the principles of the constitution better then american senators.  It seems we were so busy exporting our way of life to the rest of the world we hollowed ourselves out back home.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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