Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vilanat]

Obama motives are questionable, to say the least.

He goes on to sanction Venezuela's leaders over perpetrating human rights and crushing political opponents, while striving a removal of sanctions against Iran, a state that endorse terrorism almost openly, that is responsible for hundreds of thousands of dead syrian civilians (Actively assisting the Syrian government and is considered a main, perhaps sole reason that Assad is still in control), that is responsible for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of dead Yemeni civilians, a state which openly state their imperialistic aspirations regarding Iraq and other surrounding countries, a state who's leaders openly call for the destruction of the only real free democracy in the middle east, not to mention all the executions and human rights violations it imposes on its own people.

The thing is, Iran shouldn't get sanctioned just over its nuclear aspirations, it should be kept under sanctions because of all the other atrocities being made with their backing.

The call for an agreement is not to deny Iran of its nuclear capabilities, its that Obama could leave a legacy of achievements after he failed doing so by tragically misreading the map during and after the "Arab spring" and his inability to stabalize Ukraine. i don't think the delicate balance in a hell zone such is the middle east should be violently shaken just because Obama wants some trophies to put on his shelf.

[mainiac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[Vilanat]

Duh. This is a discussion forum so i think it goes without saying that these discussions are an exchange of information and opinions. its kinda redundant and slightly unintelligent to point out to each other that we state our opinions every time a new.

Regardless, it is still possible to separate the opinionated part of my post and the factual statements (I even separated them into paragraphs so it could be easier to distinguish).

[Vilanat]

I don't think the U.S should go on a military campaign against Iran at all. i just think the sanctions are actually working and should just be kept until Iran stops its imperialistic actions throughout the middle east. there is a reason Iran is willing and eager to reach an agreement of sort. the fact that Iran could help against ISIS is also another point which i find a bit hypocritical. its not as if the Shiites backed by Iran act any better than ISIS, they just don't post videos of themselves committing such atrocities.  regardless, i don't see what good can there be if Iran de facto takes control of Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon.

I am also not sure Israel has much of an influence. its a small country with little effect on global economics. they are a noisy bunch that's for sure (So are the Palestines), but in terms of actual leverage on global or at least regional politics i think that Saudi arabia has far more power and influence and they are not at best terms with Iran to say the least.

[Frumple]

Israel has this odd thing where it's somehow shoved its dong so far down the US's throat you can stick an electrode up israel's arse and use it as a defibrillator. That's, to a large extent, where its disproportionate amount of influence comes from (in no small part due to the disgusting amount of military funding the states have poured into it over the years, on the regional level). Saudi Arabia or whatev' definitely would seem to be more influential nation states on the face of it, but they haven't managed to net the world's hyperpower as their own personal schlong gargler.

That and the whole nukes thing.

... in other neat bits of info regarding the US/Iran thing, it's kinda' interesting how cheerfully the states have forgotten the text of the non-proliferation treaty both countries are signatories of. What with that whole "assist other countries in developing civilian nuclear power" bit.

[smjjames]

Wait, Iran is a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty? I wasn't aware of that.

Kind of makes the whole debacle a joke, in a way.

[Frumple]

... there are precisely three countries in the entirety of the world that aren't (India, Pakistan, and Israel) at this point, and one other (North Korea) that withdrew.

[smjjames]

Which, again, makes the whole thing silly, because why would they make nukes (as in weapons) if they're signatories.

Understandably, Israel is scared and the rhetoric coming out of Iran doesn't help matters.

Of course, if Israel actually does have nukes (not sure if it's been confirmed, but it's been rumored just short of confirmation), then they need to grow a spine.

[Angle]

Israel has made it prety clear they have nukes, but they haven't publicly admitted it. They want the benefits of being a nuclear power without having to deal with the politics of having admitted they're a nuclear power.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

... In terms of any of the potential candidates for this upcoming campaign I think most, if not all, candidates that have a reasonable chance of being nominated will probably have more geopolitical backbone than Obama.

[mainiac]

People prefer failure in a satisfyingly dramatic failure then accepting a very good victory indeed. 

[misko27]

Israel has made it prety clear they have nukes, but they haven't publicly admitted it. They want the benefits of being a nuclear power without having to deal with the politics of having admitted they're a nuclear power.

I'm typically an anti-conspirafy theorist, but try this one from a devil's advocate: maybe they have no nukes. Maybe it's a double-bluff. People are so focused on determining whether a country has nukes they forget to check if they don't.

As for the US-Israel relationship, I can't help but note the left-wing forum taking the generic left-wing view. Come on folks, speak with a little nuance.

[nenjin]

As for the US-Israel relationship, I can't help but note the left-wing forum taking the generic left-wing view. Come on folks, speak with a little nuance.

Which is? If you're going to criticize an entire spectrum of the forum, maybe you should be a little less nuanced.

[Frumple]

People are so focused on determining whether a country has nukes they forget to check if they don't.

... what exactly would you suggest, there? Above the board inspections and whatnot have been consistently rebuffed by Israel, and what is known of more clandestine stuff to the general public points towards possession, so far as I'm aware.

[nenjin]

People are so focused on determining whether a country has nukes they forget to check if they don't.

... what exactly would you suggest, there? Above the board inspections and whatnot have been consistently rebuffed by Israel, and what is known of more clandestine stuff to the general public points towards possession, so far as I'm aware.

Ironic when you consider how they've acted about Iranian inspections.

Like I said a while ago, if Iran would knock off threatening the total destruction of Israel, I think it would be way, way easier to call Israel out on being dicks, hypocrites, etc..