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What do you think of the new format?

I like it better than the last one
It's good, but I don't see the need with the discussion thread
It's not going to go anywhere good, just lock it now.

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Author Topic: Religion Questions Thread  (Read 56968 times)

Rolan7

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2014, 12:24:04 am »

That was just my first impression, it seems to be working out pretty well so far.
That was mostly a joke, and I broke the rules of my own thread by making it ::)

Anyway.
Oh good, I was worried I was too aggressive...  I have a bit of a fever today.

Rolan7: Could you explain, in brief, what animism is, I'm not familiar religions that aren't monotheistic, Hinduism, or Buddhism.

I only recently realized that it had any sort of name, so my definition might be off, but it seems like a broad, simple term.  Wikipedia says it's basically the belief that non-human entities like animals, or rocks, or weather phenomenon can have spirits.  That matches what I've always felt really strongly.  I call myself dubious because I really don't know that it's true, or if it even means anything, just that it feels true.

So every time it rains I thank Gaia, and also reflect on a time I had to wait out a heavy thunderstorm in the woods without shelter.  It feels really right to stop and show respect and just admire the scale of these things.  Part of that is because it *feels* like something huge and alien is listening.

Gaia is what I call the entire planetary ecosystem, which can be described as a compound life form (James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis.  I read the Sim Earth Bible a lot, growing up).  And if there really are spirits, Gaia's spirit would be made of all the spirits which participate in nature.  Which includes us, though humanity has a tendency to wall nature off and forge our own identity.  Which makes humanity basically a child or spore of Gaia, particularly if we ever bring another planet to life.

But uh, usually I don't think about it that much.  Certain things just feel spiritually alive to me, which I guess is animism in a nutshell.
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smeeprocket

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #106 on: December 15, 2014, 09:00:03 am »

chaoticag

Can you explain exactly what a fatwa is and exactly how much sway it has within the faith?

What is the Muslim definition of heaven? Specifically, what was yours when you believed in it?

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What is your definition of heaven, and do you think it is the same for everyone?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 10:32:30 am by smeeprocket »
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Arcvasti

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #107 on: December 15, 2014, 07:59:26 pm »

RE: Heaven:

No real specific ideas about it. The Catholic Church says a ton of stuff about it, but, as with most things it says, I'd take it with a grain of salt. As far as Biblical descriptions of heaven...

Quote from: Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

That's the main part I remember about the Biblical descriptions, besides the generic "Paradisey" vibe it has going for it. That alone, in my eyes, would make it a fair bit more pleasant then earth. The main thing I've heard about it is that the joy and reward of Heaven is in the eternal contemplation of God or something like that. Also they're supposed to sing praises[According to Revelation, so your mileage may vary on that]. Basically, the soul in Heaven would be with God and his angels in Their realm, interceding with God for mortal petitioners and possibly appearing to them in times of great need. And singing, apparently. I'm fairly sure you'd meet your departed loved ones[If applicable], I don't think that's directly stated in the Bible itself, but its sort of implied in Matthew 22ish.

2 Corinthians 5, at least in some translations, describes a "Heavenly body", presumably LIKE the bodies we had, but different. Something I read described how a necklace looked like a horse if you took away the horse and just left what the horse WAS. That seems like the proper vibe for a heavenly body, being something that accurately reflects ones SELF rather then ones parents.

I'm really not sure what individual variations Heaven would have, if any. For people with REALLY different definitions of Paradise and such, I'm pretty sure an omnipotent deity could manage something.
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chaoticag

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #108 on: December 16, 2014, 12:01:10 am »

chaoticag

Can you explain exactly what a fatwa is and exactly how much sway it has within the faith?

What is the Muslim definition of heaven? Specifically, what was yours when you believed in it?
A fatwa is generally considered the third highest authority, also the least authority on spiritual matters, following the Quran and the Hadith. Generally speaking, it seems that Imam's have been out of touch with the times, at least as far as my family was concerned. My father thinks that organ transplants are okay, and thinks that Imams that think otherwise are being idiots. This was also one of the issues that suddenly became okay when the Saudi King needed one.

It's still considered necessary, since the Quran and the Hadith are not comprehensive, and it's a way to get a religious opinion on the matter from a scholar. That being said, I don't recall hearing of any regular sane fatwa. Maybe it's because we hear of the particularly inane ones, same as you prolly can think of more dumb legal opinions unless you're a lawyer.

As far as heaven goes, the view I grew up with was a green paradise with as many levels as hell hath depths. Wine without making you drunk, fruit that picks itself off of trees for you, and uh, I guess the easiest translation for the next bit is walking beds? Also, the weakest of faith to enter had a house bigger than the known world, and heavenly servants for every need. Well, every want at this point, since you don't need a thing in heaven.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #109 on: December 16, 2014, 01:18:16 am »

.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 12:18:30 am by penguinofhonor »
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #110 on: December 16, 2014, 01:24:17 am »

What is your definition of heaven, and do you think it is the same for everyone?
Ye Olde Bible doesn't say a lot about it, other than (as Arcvasti said) "paradisey". I think it's a poor idea to build expectations when we don't know what's involved.

We'll go with "nice", though. Seems like a fairly desirable outcome at any rate.
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Bohandas

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #111 on: December 16, 2014, 01:43:32 am »

What is your definition of heaven, and do you think it is the same for everyone?
Ye Olde Bible doesn't say a lot about it, other than (as Arcvasti said) "paradisey". I think it's a poor idea to build expectations when we don't know what's involved.

We'll go with "nice", though. Seems like a fairly desirable outcome at any rate.

I think that there's a brief description in Revelation 21 (or at least of a piece of heaven that is brought down to Earth to build the new Jerusalem)
Jesus also states at one point that "the Father's house has many rooms".

...and do you think it is the same for everyone?

Ecclesiastes states that "all go to one place"
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:46:15 am by Bohandas »
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chaoticag

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #112 on: December 16, 2014, 04:04:12 am »

Chaoticag: Can you go into more detail on the walking beds? Does that have a basis in the Quran?
Not sure what detail there is to go into. These are the verses I was told about that meant that.Apologies for the crappy website, but it's got a bit of translation going on (if you wanna know the chapter verse, it's Yaseen(36):55-65). Also, Arabic to English translations can miss out on the nuance of the original Arabic.

Looks like the word Ara-ik got translated into thrones? Maybe those are the kind you recline on, roman style. Anyway, compared to say, Christianity, the Quran is a bit clearer on what is in heaven and hell.
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Teneb

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #113 on: December 16, 2014, 07:13:15 am »

I sent the PM to 4maskwolf signing up for this. I'm a former brazilian catholic (there are enough differences I tend to regard it as a variation) and currently discordian.
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Vilanat

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #114 on: December 16, 2014, 11:02:02 am »

You can take a strict view like my mother does. You have to cover your hair, although covering the face is more a cultural thing. In 12th grade though, the teacher in charge of religious studies interpreted the passage as saying dress modestly, so not necessarily cover the hair. In this case, the covering the whole body thing was a holdover from pre-Islamic times.

Aren't all religions culturally influenced? unless you actually believe in a specific holy book, reason says all the other books/religions you do not believe in have risen from cultural traditions (Which includes other religions as sources as well).

Quote
All Muslims are encouraged to get educated though, so I've always found the Taliban to be jerks, to put it very lightly.

Interesting, Does the religion specify what type of education/knowledge muslims are encouraged to receive? is it a religious knowledge? scientific knowledge?

Ecclesiastes states that "all go to one place"

Which is not heaven. in the same passage it mentions all go to one place, it continues by saying everything is made from dust and returns to dust, which is typical for the jews rejection of an afterlife.
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Silthuri

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #115 on: December 16, 2014, 02:49:53 pm »

I've sent the PM to 4maskwolf. I'm a solitary practitioner of Eclectic Wicca.
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chaoticag

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #116 on: December 16, 2014, 03:38:18 pm »

You can take a strict view like my mother does. You have to cover your hair, although covering the face is more a cultural thing. In 12th grade though, the teacher in charge of religious studies interpreted the passage as saying dress modestly, so not necessarily cover the hair. In this case, the covering the whole body thing was a holdover from pre-Islamic times.

Aren't all religions culturally influenced? unless you actually believe in a specific holy book, reason says all the other books/religions you do not believe in have risen from cultural traditions (Which includes other religions as sources as well).

There's a lot of cultural influences on religion it does seem. See Jesus casting out the demon "leigon" into pigs, which then threw themselves off a cliff. I think that's how that bit goes. And while Muslims agree that christ will return, for all have to die, and Jesus hadn't yet, there does seem to be an idea floating around that there might not be an anti-christ, with that side arguing it's a Christian influence. So yeah.

Kinda why I don't think people should judge a religion solely by it's holy books, since the cultures you know less of and which follow a different religion get hurt the worst by this interpretation. It's also a less than useful predictor of behavior.

All Muslims are encouraged to get educated though, so I've always found the Taliban to be jerks, to put it very lightly.

Interesting, Does the religion specify what type of education/knowledge muslims are encouraged to receive? is it a religious knowledge? scientific knowledge?
I can't recall a specific Aya(verse), but the first verse in Islam states Iqra bismi rubbika alathy khalaq. (Okay, chronologically the first, Quraniq order is weird, since it's generally reverse chronological. Generally, so this one isn't the last either.). This translates into "read in the name of the Lord that created". (In Arabic, read and recite are the same word, so yeah. Welcome to translating holy books to English). Anyway, a big focus in Islam early on was literacy, getting people to read was also going to open up people to writing things down and reading things, making knowledge easier to transfer and facilitate collective learning. Since a lot of scholars tie this bit, and the next hadith or two I have down there, with the rise of Islamic science and mathematics, into one of God's first commands to Muslims as to learn.

Anyway, the other Hadith has Mohammed stating that one should look for knowledge, even if he has to go to China (China being one of the farthest places known at the time). I also can't recall if it was a hadith or not, but it was often repeated to me that a mujahid in the name of knowledge got the highest of honors, compared to a mujahid by the sword.

So that leads to my beliefs as a Muslim that all knowledge was effectively spiritual. Not sure if it's a common view, but hey, I was a good student, so learning was helping my standing. Though the current dominant schools all draw from the Asharii school nowadays. It focuses on spiriutal knowledge over worldly knowledge. There was a time when there was the Mu'tazilites, who were closer to greek rationalists. The school has been very stagnant. I really don't know of anyone that adopts it still, but I would identify as one if I was still a Muslim.

(Sorry if I've been posting walls of texts, or too often here. I worry I might be dominating the thread.)

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TD1

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #117 on: December 16, 2014, 04:23:28 pm »

Don't worry chaoticag, people like to learn and you're a font on Islam.

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I was thinking today in school. If the creation story is just the bible's way of describing it, and that it's just a story shows how evolution may go hand in hand with it, then why did Jesus have to die for our sins? I think the whole purpose of that was he was dying for original sin, thus letting us repent of our own sins by ourselves and thus achieve heaven.
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chaoticag

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #118 on: December 16, 2014, 05:03:30 pm »

It just feels a bit weird since I'm not really a Muslim anymore? Kinda wish someone currently one would sign up here too. I'm trying to be as impartial as I can here, and recalling things as I remember them, but a lot has been happening in the past 13 years that prolly will influence how people believe in Islam. Plus, well, I can't say I can represent too many of the schools such as the Wahabi movement, the Salafis. And I've honestly got some questions for people that are/were Shia. Growing up, when I asked my parents whether we were sunni or shia, my mom told me that we're all Muslims, but well, tensions are kinda flaring, and she now, well, I'd hate to be a Shia talking to her.
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Vilanat

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Re: Religion Questions Thread
« Reply #119 on: December 17, 2014, 12:33:35 am »

Not sure i understand when you say you believe all knowledge was spiritual knowledge. do you mean all education and encouragement of education was for religious education/spiritual knowledge, or that all knowledge at the time was actually considered spiritual knowledge, even areas we now see as worldly?

Also, may i ask where are you from? (Hope its not a violation of your privacy)
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