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Author Topic: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014  (Read 70891 times)

Melting Sky

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 04:53:39 pm »

I saw you mention earlier that you tend to cap your population at very low numbers. This may be part of the issue, at least for those fortresses that have been capped at under 80. A population of 80 has been a magic number in the past in determining if you can be attacked by some of the larger threats like mounted sieges, so you might want to try running more than just one or two fortresses up past that mark and see if that breaks your dry spell.

Another possible cause of the problem could be related to that bug we had earlier in the release where the over world pathing was broken when determining neighbors. I remember for instance having forts that were literally right next to necromancer towers or goblin civs yet they would not show up as neighbors. I remember one forest fortress I had in particular where it should have had 4 or 5 necromancer towers in range yet not even half showed up as neighbors. Toady patched this bug which allowed the neighbors to show up properly again, but perhaps there is still some underlying over world movement and pathing problems that are still going on where civs that should be able to reach you still think they can't and thus don't send sieges? I assume you've checked to see if the neighboring hostiles have normal population levels? If they are dying or fledgling sites with only a handful of citizens they won't have troops to attack you with.

You mentioned that you always start your forts in a fresh world because you have very specific conditions that your embarks sites must meet. Perhaps it is something about the topography and other specific conditions you look for in an embark that is related to the problem. Have you tried just picking a completely random embark site with a lot of hostile neighbors to see if its the type of embarks you are choosing that is somehow related to the issue?

My final guess is that perhaps you are just astronomically unlucky in this regard and the game has been sending you mega beasts instead of sieges. I don't know if this still holds true in the new version or not since troops and their movements are now modeled in greater detail, but in past versions if you save scummed before a siege, sometimes instead of a siege a mega beast would show up and vice versa. It seemed like the game would determine if you met the conditions required to incur an attack and would then choose from a list of possible local threats and pick one randomly. To test this theory you could save scum repeatedly the next time you are attacked and see if it changes what you are attacked by or not. If this is the case you could probably increase the odds of being attacked by civs instead of mega beasts by decreasing beast numbers in world gen or simply letting world gen run longer. How long of a history do you run when you play? You aren't starting in like year 10 or something, are you?

The fact that others are reporting being sieged normally and you are not suggests it may be something you are doing different than everyone else that has uncovered the quirky game behavior.

Edit: I should add that in general sieges seem to be considerably less common in DF 2014 than in the older versions but they shouldn't be non-existent under normal circumstances. The decrease in sieges is a consequence of the fact that the game doesn't conjure the troops out of thin air like it used to. Anything that decreases the populations of aggressive civs will negatively impact the number and size of the sieges you can expect to receive. A couple of suspect world gen perimeters that come to mind include the number of mega beasts, history length and savagery. You might want to tinker with those variables if you have set them to unusual values during world gen.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 06:39:37 pm by Melting Sky »
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kingu

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2014, 03:22:51 am »

After six (6!) in game years I had my first goblin encounter. No thieves, No snatchers, just a siege out of nowhree. They attacked with one small squad. I have a fully mature fortress. The king has even arrived with 4 legendary weaponmasters. This seems a bit unbalanced
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Skuggen

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 07:32:01 am »

My newest fort is fairly close to all civs (humans, dwarves, goblins and tower. No elf civilization survived worldgen \o/). Only ones that show up regularly are the dwarves. Took over 2 years for the first human caravan. Haven't seen a single goblin. I do get visited by necromancers fairly regularly, but they always show up with no zombies and immediately get scared off by the dogs :)
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Lemunde

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2014, 03:14:05 am »

I don't know if people are still having a problem with this but while looking through the raws I discovered goblins (and other races) have the tag:

[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]

After googling around I figured out that this number represents a certain population tiers. Specifically 3 represents a population of 80 where (as someone mentioned earlier) certain things start happening. I'm going to try lowering this to 1, genning a new world and starting a new fort with a population cap of 50 to see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

Edit: This is a very old thread but I think it's relevant. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58013.0
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 03:21:08 am by Lemunde »
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GavJ

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2014, 03:39:59 am »

Quote
3 represents a population of 80
Wow that's ridiculous, okay. "Hey what units should we use for a population requirement in the user init files?" "Hmm... how about groups of 27 dwarves?" "Not just dwarves period?" "No, definitely 27 dwarf units" "Okay, well I'll just go label that th--" "No, don't label the units. Everybody will just know that it is 27 dwarves, trust me."

... *facepalm*
Anyway, that's probably it then. I've only hit 80 with one fort for a year and a half or something.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 03:44:59 am by GavJ »
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WDDworf

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2014, 03:45:45 am »

The way sieges work have been adjusted tremendously (atleast I think / experienced that).

I've been running my fort for 4, or 5 years with Human, Dwarves and Goblin neighbours.
The Dwarves shown up from year 1 with a goblin liaison.
The Humans started showing up from year.. 3 I think.
The Goblin just showed up in the last year with about 10 men strong in a siege (for the first time, except for kobolds/gremlins).

The humans also have an Olm man diplomat.

I've had more than 100 dwarves pretty soon.. I think in year 2.. and the produced wealth must be getting pretty high as well.
Multiple forgotten beasts (twice a human giant); always elves showing up as werebeasts.

I had the feeling several Dwarven settlements got attacked (and lost) by the Goblin.. and only after that I got sieged.
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Ancalagon_TB

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2014, 07:50:28 am »

Is the popcap "trigger" based on total dwarven numbers or the number of adults (soo many babies!!)?   I too have never been sieged :(
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Lemunde

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2014, 08:37:37 am »

Is the popcap "trigger" based on total dwarven numbers or the number of adults (soo many babies!!)?   I too have never been sieged :(

Hard to say. I would assume it's the total population as having to keep up with a different number for adults would require slightly more programming. You know, path of least resistance and all that. But you never know.
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pisskop

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2014, 08:39:59 am »

yes, those numbers list minimal requirements.  At least one must be met, out of the 5, for a siege to occur.

otherwise only ambushes or smaller forms of conflict will occur.

but i have no clue how anything affects size of siege/frequency
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smakemupagus

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2014, 08:54:33 am »

Quote
3 represents a population of 80
Wow that's ridiculous, okay. "Hey what units should we use for a population requirement in the user init files?" "Hmm... how about groups of 27 dwarves?" "Not just dwarves period?" "No, definitely 27 dwarf units" "Okay, well I'll just go label that th--" "No, don't label the units. Everybody will just know that it is 27 dwarves, trust me."

... *facepalm*
Anyway, that's probably it then. I've only hit 80 with one fort for a year and a half or something.

The units for several different triggers (population, wealth, etc.) are all normalized to a common five point scale. 

MDFification

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2014, 04:40:12 pm »

Same here. I made a really awesome drowning trap and nobody ever showed up to trip it. Maybe there's some kind of trigger other than wealth that attracts them. Do you have a population cap? Artifacts turned off?
artifacts are always on in my forts, most of them have pop 20-30 capped, but my most recent one I set to 80, and have been at 80 for a year or two and still nothing.

(if that is a trigger, though, it shouldn't be)

20-30 pop cap is far too low to attract goblin sieges. Raising it was a good move.
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TheHossofMoss

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2014, 05:38:55 pm »

Reminds me of that lyric in a certain Slipknot song, "F^ck me, I'm all out of enemies!"
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Ancalagon_TB

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2014, 01:25:28 am »

How peculiar.  The day after I post, goblin siege!  Hopefully there will be more, as there were only 11 of them so it was quite underwhelming...

... although their timing was perfect.  I was doing a major re-org of my squads and they had weapons and piece of armor missing.  One of them bashed a goblin to death with a wooden shield, and I think another went with naked legs.  Not too worried though, one axelord decapitated 4 gobos by himself :D
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Voidlord

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2014, 08:04:05 am »

Check the error log, you might have the error that armies camp forever, so no sieges...
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Naryar

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Re: Nobody ever freaking attacks me anymore in 2014
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2014, 03:51:17 pm »

I have fortress defense on, haven't had any attacks on the first year. That is normal, tbh.

I'll see if more hostile civs = more attacks.

But if attacks are that rare, I may just stop playing df2014. Or maybe just build stuff, but half the fun of DF IS crushing your enemies and spilling blood for Armok, after all.
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