Is for spiritual things: The act of murder is sinful, no matter what the extenuating circumstances. Christianity is VERY clear on this. Killing for the greater good or in self-defense is still wrong.
This is explicitly outside the realm of the bible's text
Killing in self-defense is fine. Killing for the "greater good" (in particular, through war or executions) is also not sinful, insofar as the text itself is concerned. Murder is sinful, but there's considerably more to killing than murder, and much of it is not inherently sinful by the measure of the biblical texts. It's either not mentioned or outright endorsed, depending on the situation.
Regardless, there's been no question as to if the act of killing the child itself would be sinful or not -- that was explicitly noted straight from the start. The question isn't if the act would be terrible, but whether it would be selfless to do so even in the face of that, when considering the scenario of a guaranteed entrance to heaven for the deceased.
As for the identity bit, I'm not entirely sure that part matters to those that hold that the unborn are ensouled.
However, at least some Christian denominations believe that Original Sin still weighs down the souls of the unbaptized. So, for maximum chances of instant heaven babies, they would have to be born and baptized before being killed.
As for killing being immoral being outside of the bibles text... I'm pretty sure Jesus said at least something about killing[Or even violence], even in self defense being wrong.
You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Pretty explicit. Killing in self-defense is not something the Bible is OK with. Jesus was a big fan of pacifism.
Also, this passage might be relevant:
21You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not kill[or murder]; and whosoever shall kill[or murder] shall be in danger of the judgment:
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Which isn't as relevant as I thought. Still, putting it out there.
As for abortion...
Preventation before abortion. While Christians[Or at least Catholics] frown on birth control[No idea why. I've only gotten silly half-answers from anyone I've asked.], its better then abortion. If you MUST do it, do it quickly and cleanly before the infant matures.
My opinion, not the Church's. The Church's opinion on things that aren't explicitly stated in the Bible seems to consist mainly of extrapolation and ad libbing.
@Cryxis You're really digging yourself deeper. Please, just don't. Just. Don't. Consider locking the thread for a while to let things simmer down.
Or just lock it entirely. I'm not sure if I should call Toady in on this. I don't want it to come to that. Also, try looking for bible verses to support your statements. Or, instead of saying "I personally believe", NOT POSTING. This is not a thread about your personal beliefs. This is a thread about Christian beliefs. The two have a lot of overlap, but don't mistake the former for the latter.
@NoneCryxisPeople:
At this point, the thread has mostly degenerated into people pouncing on every inconsistency in what Cryxsis says. Forum Guidelines Not sure if anything here is breaking them. But some things here are coming pretty close to it. Let us maintain our chill composure.... though, please try for a different example, there, Cryx. "If you're atheist, it's okay if your baby is killed" -- regardless of the reason -- is one of the most frankly fucking horrific things I've heard in a long time.
You mean BESIDES systematically killing babies to make them go to heaven? Not that what you're describing isn't horrific, but I'd say that my example is pretty bad.
EDIT: While I was typing this, things seem to have cooled down. The bolded parts of this post may no longer be relevant.
EDIT: Cool it dwarfy. We just broke the 100 page mark
Who uses 15ppp?