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[martinuzz]

In the Netherlands we had a 3d day of protests against police racism in the US.Among other cities, Utrecht and Rotterdam saw demonstrations.
The demonstration in Rotterdam is being dispersed by the police at the moment, because it has become too crowded.
The mayor of Rotterdam had expected around 4000 people, but apparently many more turned up, there's no numbers yet how many there were.
The police say they are doing their best to disperse the crowd in a controlled manner.
Pic of the Rotterdam crowd in the link  https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/live-demonstratie-tegen-racisme-in-rotterdam-beeindigd-wegens-drukte-belgie-opent-grenzen-vanaf-15-juni~b38eee56/

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Paris is protesting as well. Getting some real Occupy vibes from how this has spread outside the US.

EDIT: Now hearing that Chauvin's charge has been increased to 2nd degree murder and that the other three cops have been arrested for aiding and abetting.

[A Thing]

EDIT: Now hearing that Chauvin's charge has been increased to 2nd degree murder and that the other three cops have been arrested for aiding and abetting.

You love to see it.

edit: changed it back, was worried it came off the wrong way.

[Dunamisdeos]

EDIT: Now hearing that Chauvin's charge has been increased to 2nd degree murder and that the other three cops have been arrested for aiding and abetting.

You love to see it.

I'm pleasantly shocked.

I wonder how solid of a legal precedent this is going to set in the end? Obviously murder was always y'kno, "illegal", but could it mean more actual accountability?

[TamerVirus]

I wonder how solid of a legal precedent this is going to set in the end? Obviously murder was always y'kno, "illegal", but could it mean more actual accountability?

In b4 full aquittal

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That is, to some degree, what makes cops so uniformly intractable and psycho during moments like this: The fear that the power they have on loan from the ruling class may be diminished.

An irrational fear IMO, but if it gets any of them to abandon their jobs I won't be complaining. And yes, they'll try their hardest to turn even this into an overcharge, though that too will surely have a poor outcome by reigniting all this down the line.

[SalmonGod]

That is, to some degree, what makes cops so uniformly intractable and psycho during moments like this: The fear that the power they have on loan from the ruling class may be diminished.

Frankly, I've been seeing this whole event as two competing protests.  The police aren't out there doing their jobs and maintaining order.  They are protesting just as much as the people are.  They're protesting against the motion to reign in their power.  Both sides are openly expressing their anger and disgust for each other.  Both trying to wear the other down.  Both expecting this to end when legislators and onlookers throw weight to their side -- police because that's what's always happened, and protesters because their grievances are impossible to deny.

[Dostoevsky]

Based on my very limited criminal law knowledge (law school courses and reading up on MN's code) I think going up to 2nd is going to make conviction a good deal more difficult. Police officers have a pretty good record getting off on the intentionality part of murder (if I recall), so bringing in intent is going to be more tricky. That's even with the video evidence being as damning as it is (in my opinion).

I wonder if going up to 2nd was a prerequisite for linking the other three.

[Iduno]

Paris is protesting as well. Getting some real Occupy vibes from how this has spread outside the US.

I was thinking Arab Spring, but yeah.

[Dunamisdeos]

The actual website for Minnesota statues is so bogged down right now it won't let me through, but elsewhere on the internet staes that 2nd Degree Murder is ALSO applicible if:

Causing a death unintentionally, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict great physical harm on the victim.

That fits the bill neatly insofar as legal requirements go. Also, you can sentence someone for 40 years on 2nd degree. Bets as to whether he gets the minimum or not?

[Dostoevsky]

Eh, there's still an intention requirement there. He could claim he was just trying to restrain / protect himself, and certain types of juries are likely to run with it.

Would also be worth knowing what the law/precedent is for police excuses in MN; in general police often have a lot of 'but I X' get-out-of-jail-free-cards when it comes to criminal prosecution.

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah but I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that kneeling on his neck for nine minutes, some of which was after he had no pulse, constitutes anything but "intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict great physical harm".

Mind you I'm sure some jackass will absolutely argue that, but I don't see it holding up. I'm looking forward to what the jury will be like.

[Dostoevsky]

Yeah, hopefully just me being really cynical when it comes to police officers going to trial. Not impossible to convict one, but the odds are pretty rough.

[Dunamisdeos]

It's hard NOT to be cynical. My expectation is that someone will either A) Force a mistrial, or B) Accidentally forcibly hang himself so they can't convict him. Can't establish precedent if he's dead! What a tragedy, #justice get back to work now. etc.

But I'm still hopeful that this gets seen through to the end, and that end is prison. A lot of prison.

[nenjin]

If they hung themselves, I'd consider that a form of justice. Wouldn't address the larger issues with policing but at least the person responsible for the crime would pay the ultimate price.

OTOH if it's a Jeffrey Eppstein type situation....that's less so.