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[GavJ]

Not sure why everybody is flipping out about each others' nearly identical definitions. I see almost no functional difference between any of these:

that describes the act of a man speaking to a woman with the assumption that she knows less than he does about the topic being discussed on the basis of her gender

Mansplaining is supposed to mean when a man assumes he is right or takes on an air of superiority in knowledge due merely to being a man talking to a woman.

Mansplaining is a portmanteau of the words "man" and "explaining" that describes the act of a man speaking to a woman with the assumption that she knows less than he does about the topic being discussed on the basis of her gender

to comment on or explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner

Mansplaining is when someone of higher privelage simply dismisses anothers view. ",I as a male, haven't seen discrimination against women therefore it must not exist". It also applies to other situations (rich people's difficulty in comprehending that its hard for some people to feed themselves etc)

The only odd definition out of the bunch is

Mansplaining simply means a MAN didn't acknowledge that someone was a woman and then tried to "explain" or "say" or "Have an opinion that the woman doesn't agree with" without first saying "I acknowledge you are a woman" first.

Which is frankly pretty bizarre by comparison. Who expects you to say "I acknowledge you are a woman" before everything? Certainly nobody i've ever talked to before, as compared to the dozens of people who use mansplaining around me who mean the above communal definition.

[EnigmaticHat]

Personally, I think we (i.e., everyone involved) should drop this "feminism" nonsense entirely. Initially, when women were actually being repressed - in the Western world, at least - it had a point. Now the whole movement is tainted with the tumblr goings-on and various other extremists. Plus the fact that women actually have all the rights of men, in terms of property, suffrage, and the like.
Equality I can live with. Equality is cool. Feminism, not so much.

I want to argue with this but I can't do it without insulting you.

Do it. I don't mind.

Alright.  Be aware that while I am angry, its mostly about our forum culture.  What I say to you, I've wanted to say to a lot of people.

You are to gender debates, what talk-show creationists are to scientific discourse about evolution.  You waltz in to this conversation that's been going on since before your parents were born, with a knowledge of the topic at hand that is maybe higher than average human, but nothing impressive by the standards of people who have actively informed themselves.  And you say a few things, with a confidence that ignores the fact that you're saying extremely obvious things.  You say things like "gender roles will make complete sense if you just look at this wikipedia page about sexual dimorphism" or "it shouldn't be about women, it should be about equality".  And all I can think in response is... seriously?  You think that there is a single feminist in this thread who hasn't already thought of that?

Like don't get me wrong, its one thing to disagree with feminism.  But its another thing entirely to act like you know what you're talking about when your first response to a conversation about gender roles is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism#Humans

And nothing else.  Even ignoring the naturalist fallacy you're committing there (implying we should be OK with gender roles because they are what we evolved for, not that that's even true) its just so... transparently wrong.  Like I want to argue with the implied argument that you're making, which is that gender roles match up with human biology.  But I can't be sure that's what you'res aying because from that post its not clear that you even know what gender roles are.

Ditto for feminism.  One part of me wants to say "no, its a varied movement and individuals within it believe different things, plus AFAIK if you asked the vast majority of them if they want equality for men and women the answer would be an enthusiastic yes" but the other, increasingly dominant part of me wants to say "no, and no to the five dozen people who said this before you, and stop acting like you're adding to the conversation".

[Neonivek]

alexandertnt there is more then one definition going on at once. There is more then one definition...

And it is still a terrifyingly sexist term... At least to me.

 

It does not mean in any way men can't discuss feminine issues.

It doesn't have to be used correctly.

Just pop it out whenever a man assumes they are correct and the opponent is a woman.

Which is frankly pretty bizarre by comparison. Who expects you to say "I acknowledge you are a woman" before everything? Certainly nobody i've ever talked to before, as compared to the dozens of people who use mansplaining around me who mean the above communal definition

It isn't meant to be reasonable.

If you are talking to a doctor about medicine and they present information... now you aren't a doctor and you think you know differently.

If you say "No, this is true" you are mansplaining. If you go "Well I know you are a medically trained doctor with years of experience, but I still think this is true" you are not.

Now, this is just one definition at play... But honestly that alone will get you out of most mansplaining accusations. So long as you acknowledge that the person you are speaking to is the expert.

[Orange Wizard]

Yes.

[Rolepgeek]

The difference between bitching and mansplaining, here, Neonivek, is that bitching is also a gender-neutral term (I bitch to people all the time) that relates to complaining about one's own problems while caring little for other people's.

Bitching is something that basically everyone needs to do from time to time, because it relieves pent-up stress that is usually completely natural and okay to have, and bitching usually ends up getting rid of it in a way that harms no one except maybe your pride.

Mansplaining is necessary in exactly zero ways. And it does happen. And that is what is truly terrifying. For example, nearly any debate on abortion ends up turning into this at some point if men are involved. I don't mean to say all men do this, I'm just saying that at some point, at least one man will probably try to assume he knows what's best for them there womenfolk getting those tiny persons stuck inside their vagina-whatzits. Women can be total idiots too on the subject, and men can be very intellectually nuanced and give a valid argument against the practice that doesn't stem from religious fervor or worries about continuing to control the reproductive processes of the opposite gender. There was a woman claiming that the wage gap should be increased to benefit women because women like marrying men who make more money than them(I don't even). But in a discussion about sexism against women? Well...

[Neonivek]

Hmmm... I guess it does make sense in this case.

I think the term "bitching" is derogatory especially if you say that a woman is "just bitching". But according to your info Rolepgeek it isn't and is perfectly acceptable to say that a woman who is complaining is simply "bitching".

If that is true, then I'd have to accept that Mansplaining is an acceptable term as well.

So I accept your argument by your own terms.

I don't agree with your premises, but if your premises are right, I accept your conclusion.

[Angle]

I'm going to have to side against you on this one, Neonivek. Sorry. Bitching is indeed a gender neutral activity, one that I proudly partake in myself at times.

Anyway, any more examples of extreme feminism?

[Neonivek]

That's fine Angle. I don't really have any further arguments. xD

Though I have little idea how one would argue that "bitch" is or isn't an engendered derogatory term that when applied to males is emasculating or not...

[Orange Wizard]

Anyway, any more examples of extreme feminism?

Anita Sarkeesian? Rebecca Watson?

[alexandertnt]

Anyway, any more examples of extreme feminism?

Anita Sarkeesian? Rebecca Watson?

Thats your benchmark for extreme? No wonder you see so many extremist feminists

Video games are sexist? How extreme!

[Neonivek]

Anita isn't extreme.

Sure her examples are lame... and I doubt anyone agrees with everything she says...

But since when was "Says things I don't agree with" send someone immediately to extreme?

Anyway, any more examples of extreme feminism?

Anita Sarkeesian? Rebecca Watson?

Gave me a good laugh, especially Anita. Video games are sexist? How extreme!

Well lets not misrepresent her. That isn't what she is saying.

I am not going to link any extreme feminism... >_< the last time I looked up something intentionally because it is bad that was political... it cheesed me off (Thanks extreme Christians)

No wonder you see so many extremist feminists

I think in my own life I've met only two... but both had reasons for being so. One was clearly mentally unstable, and the other been though... troubling times.

So yeah they are clearly in the extreme minority.

But a link? hmmm... yeah I broke my promise and tried... But goodness no matter how sexist a statement you punch into google you always get the Best case scenario in there. Dang it reasonable people get out of my way!

[alexandertnt]

That isn't what she is saying.

Your quite correct, it was an intentional strawman designed to highlight a point. But I swear some of the hate towards her (and seeminly as a result, the view that she is somehow an extremist) comes from some sort of "How dare you insult Video Games!" line of thought.

[Orange Wizard]

Anyway, any more examples of extreme feminism?

Anita Sarkeesian? Rebecca Watson?

Thats your benchmark for extreme? No wonder you see so many extremist feminists

Yeah, pretty much. Everyone's an extremist until proven otherwise.

[Neonivek]

Well lets not misrepresent her. That isn't what she is saying.

Your quite correct. But I swear some of the hate towards her (and seeminly as a result the view that she is somehow an extremist) comes from some sort of "How dare you insult Video Games!" line of thought.

Feminists just get no respect on the internet... It was pretty much going to happen no matter what. Add in that this is a criticism of videogames that are good, and WOOSH! She might as well have been Jack Thompson.

I mean, I don't exactly like her... but that is because I find that she jists too much, takes the audience acceptance for granted, often doesn't see great avenues of exploration, and her examples are weak and sometimes even misleading... making all her videos seem like extended intros... and that alone.

[GavJ]

So long as you acknowledge that the person you are speaking to is the expert.

Except if the reason they're wrong is because they haven't done as much research on the topic as me, then they AREN'T the expert... so that would just be lying.
Similarly, acknowledging that somebody is a woman before making a claim that doesn't require you to be a woman to make, is misleading/almost like a kind of lying as well, by implying that it matters when it doesn't.

at least one man will probably try to assume he knows what's best for them there womenfolk getting those tiny persons stuck inside their vagina-whatzits.

I don't know exactly which arguments you're talking about, but stereotypically, arguments against abortion rarely are about the well-being of women. They tend to be about the well-being of the fetus. And being a woman doesn't really give you any better insight into the perspective/needs of a fetus than men have. We were ALL fetuses, and NONE of us remember it, so arguments made from that perspective are fairly sex-neutral and I don't see why men would have much reason to defer on the issue to womens' experience.