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[Reelya]

Another name fix:


http://jgame.net.au/language_words_optimized.txt

this removes duplicate options from the naming lists when both the English and Dwarven word don't change. it's good if you don't give a hoot whether something is labelled a noun, present participle, adjective, prefix etc - as long as it's the same damn word in both languages. Until languages get a proper overhaul, this is good for crap reduction, it knocks about 1000 duplicate entries out of the naming lists.

[Shadowclaimer]

You are a saint, does that have a thread here on the forums?

Also link doesn't work.

[Reelya]

The links fixed, i had a problem with my server

Thread is here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140432.0

I'm seeing how much I can tweak languages without breaking compatibility with other people's language files first, then I'm gonna try expanding the system

[Shadowclaimer]

The links fixed, i had a problem with my server

Thread is here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140432.0

I'm seeing how much I can tweak languages without breaking compatibility with other people's language files first, then I'm gonna try expanding the system

I totally need to base any custom languages I do off of this. Thank you!

Would I need your permission to include this in any releases? I'd love to use the optimized stuff at base with the redone Dwarves/Elves/Humans/etc.

[Reelya]

Sure that's why I posted it, anything that saves even a little RAM while playing is more for the cool stuff.

BTW this only knocks out "use cases" out of the language_words file, and only when there was an identically spelt alternative. So, it has the same symbols file, and race languages file as before. Nothing else has changed except removing duplicate choices.

My next project is going to be adding a lot of new use-cases in, to replace the duplicates with name options you weren't allowed to have before. Like you can't name a fortress "dancingblades", or "The Animals", but there were multiple choices for the same word like "ace".

Mind you, these new use-cases will STILL be completely compatible with existing modded languages. Later, down the track i'm planing an actual expanded language system where you can e.g. specify plural forms in the generated languages. No vanilla DF language current outputs plurals, but it can be coded with some effort.

[Shadowclaimer]

Sure that's why I posted it, anything that saves even a little RAM while playing is more for the cool stuff.

BTW this only knocks out "use cases" out of the language_words file, and only when there was an identically spelt alternative. So, it has the same symbols file, and race languages file as before. Nothing else has changed except removing duplicate choices.

My next project is going to be adding a lot of new use-cases in, to replace the duplicates with name options you weren't allowed to have before. Like you can't name a fortress "dancingblades", or "The Animals", but there were multiple choices for the same word like "ace".

Mind you, these new use-cases will STILL be completely compatible with existing modded languages. Later, down the track i'm planing an actual expanded language system where you can e.g. specify plural forms in the generated languages. No vanilla DF language current outputs plurals, but it can be coded with some effort.

Works for me and sounds awesome.

I'm looking forward to making new languages, or having someone do it, just to flesh out all of these races. I'd like to do "dialects" for each sub-race too but not sure how to go about that in a way I like.

[Reelya]

BTW i uploaded my "enhanced" language file now - it adds adjectives for all verbs, and adds more choices for plurals (e.g. you couldn't call your group "the ancients" before, just "the ancient") giving many more possible name choices.

For language creation and dialects you should use DFlang.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=47332.0

DFLang can quickly create random languages, which you could tweak by hand afterwards. For dialects, you could use DFlang to create the first language, tweak it how you like, then use search and replace to change the spellings in many similar words for a dialect. e.g. if many words had the word fragment "bok", you could global replace that with "doch", and so on.

Another way would be to use symbol culling differently on two civilizations, then they'd share the same spellings, but have a different feel each. This way would reduce the total number of language files the game is keeping track of.

[Shadowclaimer]

BTW i uploaded my "enhanced" language file now - it adds adjectives for all verbs, and adds more choices for plurals (e.g. you couldn't call your group "the ancients" before, just "the ancient") giving many more possible name choices.

For language creation and dialects you should use DFlang.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=47332.0

DFLang can quickly create random languages, which you could tweak by hand afterwards. For dialects, you could use DFlang to create the first language, tweak it how you like, then use search and replace to change the spellings in many similar words for a dialect. e.g. if many words had the word fragment "bok", you could global replace that with "doch", and so on.

Another way would be to use symbol culling differently on two civilizations, then they'd share the same spellings, but have a different feel each. This way would reduce the total number of language files the game is keeping track of.

You are a double saint.

Symbol Culling and such is the primary usage I intend to do for dialects really.

[Shadowclaimer]

Doing some shifting around of stuff.

-Trolls are becoming their own race set, they'll basically be an offshoot of Elves in some way. Going to slim them down and make them less brutish. Ogres will take their role in Goblin society.
-Kobolds are going with the lizard variant and moving to the Reptile category on the list. Snake people are also getting split into two variants (Jungle/Swamp snakes and Desert cobras). Might split Dragon people into various colors.
-Bird people might be removed/pushed way back, sieges with fliers are broken right now and I'd hate to have one race that can't siege when others can, would also like to split them up into various subraces.
-Trying to find out ways to change the overland/worldgen color of the sites for a race, FRIENDLY_COLOR doesn't do that sadly.
-Tonight going to try to get the bare bones versions of all of the dwarves in and spice them up from there.

[Shadowclaimer]

Working on native weapons and looking for feedback.

I'm thinking each race will have a core weapon of each type (Mining, Axe, Blade, Spear, Hammer, Mace, Ranged) and then an Other weapon. The Other weapon can also fit in any of those skills but is flavorful for that race. IE: Almadhians get Scimitars, Dark Dwarves get Scourges, etc. Most of the core weapons a race gets might be shared with other races of their sub-category.

I've added the spreadsheet for weapons to the main spreadsheet, if you get some time take a look at it and let me know what you think of the idea and whether it helps flesh out the races at all. For now subraces mostly share a lot of weapons except their final slot, in the future each race will be more customized.

[Dorwin]

Working on native weapons and looking for feedback.

I'm thinking each race will have a core weapon of each type (Mining, Axe, Blade, Spear, Hammer, Mace, Ranged) and then an Other weapon. The Other weapon can also fit in any of those skills but is flavorful for that race. IE: Almadhians get Scimitars, Dark Dwarves get Scourges, etc. Most of the core weapons a race gets might be shared with other races of their sub-category.

I've added the spreadsheet for weapons to the main spreadsheet, if you get some time take a look at it and let me know what you think of the idea and whether it helps flesh out the races at all. For now subraces mostly share a lot of weapons except their final slot, in the future each race will be more customized.

I think its a cool idea to add flavor to the new races.

[Shadowclaimer]

Working on native weapons and looking for feedback.

I'm thinking each race will have a core weapon of each type (Mining, Axe, Blade, Spear, Hammer, Mace, Ranged) and then an Other weapon. The Other weapon can also fit in any of those skills but is flavorful for that race. IE: Almadhians get Scimitars, Dark Dwarves get Scourges, etc. Most of the core weapons a race gets might be shared with other races of their sub-category.

I've added the spreadsheet for weapons to the main spreadsheet, if you get some time take a look at it and let me know what you think of the idea and whether it helps flesh out the races at all. For now subraces mostly share a lot of weapons except their final slot, in the future each race will be more customized.

I think its a cool idea to add flavor to the new races.

Yea this would apply to the old races being merged into the overhaul as well (Humans, Goblins, etc.) so they'd be getting their core weapons + 1 unique as well instead of their current lists of every weapon known to man (pun not intended.)

Stone Dwarves replace core Dwarves
Rotherans replace core Humans
Wood Elves replace core Elves
Goblins/Kobolds replace core Goblins/Kobolds

-

Decided to take the insect races in a different direction, instead of being half insect half human (where their upper half is human or whatever) like some mediums like to. I'm going to instead make them more human with insect-like traits respective to their reference. IE: the Scorpion people will have a stinger and tail, small mandibles, and four eyes, the Spider people will have 6 arms, 6 eyes, mandibles, and be able to create webs, Ant people will be two arms, two legs, and mandibles, etc.

[Dorwin]

Decided to take the insect races in a different direction, instead of being half insect half human (where their upper half is human or whatever) like some mediums like to. I'm going to instead make them more human with insect-like traits respective to their reference. IE: the Scorpion people will have a stinger and tail, small mandibles, and four eyes, the Spider people will have 6 arms, 6 eyes, mandibles, and be able to create webs, Ant people will be two arms, two legs, and mandibles, etc.

I'd personally prefer that direction. Insect people with the humanoid traits of speech and intelligence is a much more established fantasy trope as opposed to humans mutated with insect traits, if less entertaining.

Maybe you could create just one sub race, under the beast men core race that sticks with the mutated aspects.

[Shadowclaimer]

Decided to take the insect races in a different direction, instead of being half insect half human (where their upper half is human or whatever) like some mediums like to. I'm going to instead make them more human with insect-like traits respective to their reference. IE: the Scorpion people will have a stinger and tail, small mandibles, and four eyes, the Spider people will have 6 arms, 6 eyes, mandibles, and be able to create webs, Ant people will be two arms, two legs, and mandibles, etc.

I'd personally prefer that direction. Insect people with the humanoid traits of speech and intelligence is a much more established fantasy trope as opposed to humans mutated with insect traits, if less entertaining.

Maybe you could create just one sub race, under the beast men core race that sticks with the mutated aspects.

I thought about it, but I enjoy fleshing out the individual cultures and such for each one. Allows more diversity.

[Wannabehero]

Goodluck with this Shadowclaimer, it is a very large modding effort you are undertaking.

I once started an expanded civ mod myself, and then it was relegated to the huge bank of partially finished mods I have accumulated over the years.  Your mod plan is even larger and more grand than what I envisioned!

Just for your knowledge, in case it sparks any ideas, here is the list of civs I planned way back when:

• Wild Elves (Vanilla Elves)
• High Elves (Use precious metals for weapons/armor, cast spells through interactions)
• Mountain Dwarves (Vanilla Dwarves, modded slightly to fit norse folklore better)
• Hill Dwarves (More in-line with fantasy dwarf archetype)
• Imperial Humans (Vanilla Humans, modded to be more Greco-Roman, latin language file)
• Barbarian Humans (Big human raiders, sort of Neanderthalish)
• Dark Goblins (Vanilla Goblins)
• Mongreloblins (Featured multiple castes of goblin interbreeds with animals, like the Frogoblin, Goborilla, and Gobrocodile)
• Goliaths (Mountain-dwelling giant civ, not nearly as big as most mods' giants though)
• Lizardfolk (Castes based on different lizards, each with special features and interactions)