Umm.
So here's the reason i didn't want to bring up what suspicions i have about you now.
I thought you were a cop.
-snip-
So either you're vanilla town and you just painted a great big target on yourself saying "hey scum kill me and everyone will think it's yobbo".
Or you're scum, and you know that you won't be nightkilled anyway, so you can say whatever you want about what would happen if you get stabbed in the night, because you won't.
I figured as much. See, that's the problem with withholding information. I wasn't making a soft claim when I said that. In fact, I explained exactly why I said what I did. That is, to ensure that pressure was kept on you to tell everyone what your suspicions were.
And frankly, the advice I gave about avoiding rolefishing, even accidental, was
just advice. I can't respond to a "scummy vibe" accusation, so let's move on to the meat of this conversation:
So because there's no reason anymore to tiptoe round it, these are the things that i wanted to point to that you've done that i think are scummy.
I already mentioned the "only active towns become victorious" thing that made me feel like you were setting up who to lynch. I don't think there's a strong argument that this is scummy, but it just felt off to me. here for example.
Are you serious? Of course that's not scummy. We've had people lurking all game and it's making it very difficult to play well. And I'm not wrong; only active towns win. Exactly how would I use that to set up a lynch target? By targeting lurkers? We've already established that lurking is not good for the town. Nobody has claimed that Blitz is lurking, but I still find him the scummiest. "It just felt off to me" is wishy-washy crap. Passive towns lose and I don't want to lose, simple as that.
Much more suspicious is that in that post you also point out the idea behind why WIFOM is bad. But later you seem to actively be applying WIFOM to Frostmoon, saying
-snip-
It also felt like you were doing the exact same thing to me:
-snip-
this feels to me like trying to use extra time to stir up confusion, while Blitz's lynch is still pretty much assured (it was posted at the same time as i switched my vote, so written before).
I think you misunderstand. WIFOM situations aren't a bad thing to point out and/or talk about. It's essentially saying that something doesn't mean anything because of how many different things it
could mean.
Regarding Frostmoon: She had cleared anailater in her mind because he asked a question that she thought couldn't be asked by scum. I explained how easily scum could use that question to make her do exactly what she'd done. If anailater is scum, then by asking a very simple question, he's already got one person off his back for at least a large portion of the game.
Regarding myself: I don't even know what you mean by saying that quote of mine is a WIFOM situation. You said that I was the most scummy to you and, prior to the post I'm replying to right now, the only reasons you'd put forth were that I was "clear and non-confrontational." I said that there's no reason for me to spend too much time defending myself, since I know I'm town, when I could be spending that time scumhunting. (Which, by the way, is all about confronting people.) Or do you deny that I've been scumhunting? If so, then please point it out, because I can only respond to suspicions that I know something about.
here you clearly point suspicion at Deathsword and also clearly vote Blitz. But now when it looks like there's a chance Deathsword might get lynched in stead of Blitz you get very aggressive against those voting Deathsword. That makes me think that there's a strong possibility that the earlier suspicion post wasn't really suspicion but distancing, and that you fully expected the Blitz lynch to be a foregone conclusion. But now you're worried that your scumbuddy might get lynched, and reacting accordingly. You've even been trying to goad me into voting you, to split the vote on Deathsword.
here for example you're making a big point of saying that your case on deathsword depends almost entirely on Blitz being scum. This along with your aggressive protection of Deathsword makes me feel like you're trying to set up a situation where Deathsword is exonerated when Blitz comes up town.
Is it not obvious, because I believe that Deathsword's scumminess is directly related to Blitz's, that I want to see Blitz lynched first? I think it's apparent that I find Blitz to be significantly more scummy than anyone else here, so it should be equally so that I'm trying to get obvscum lynched, rather than potential scum.
I wasn't trying to goad you into voting me. I want you to vote on who you think is the scummiest, as right now you're working on assumptions that I'm not comfortable making. I'm being aggressive about lynching Deathsword today because I don't think he's scum based only on his own merits.
There's still not much there i can point at, which is why i thought it could wait, and thought it would be fine if i died and noone heard it.
And a lot of it feels like it relies on you being in a scumteam with Deathsword. Which is a large part of why i'm voting Deathsword and not you. (i think i already explained the rest).
Don't withhold information. If you have made a logical argument based on the thread, which everyone can see, then say so. Make your damn case if you've got one. Of course, if it includes having to make a roleclaim, then don't do that, but it's really irrelevant whether you think I'm cop or not. My advice from the beginning of the game holds for town no matter what role I may or may not have. Basically what you've been doing for this whole time is just a form of unintentional rolefishing. If I am the cop, then I'm not going to do anything that gives it away to scum. That includes being passive and avoiding saying things "a cop would definitely not say."
And as far as me and anailater being a scumteam, if we were both mafia there's no way i would jump over and vote Deathsword in a situation like this. The only votes on him would be ours, and it wouldn't even be a majority. If we were the scumteam then Blitz would be town and there would be no reason not to just let him be lynched.
Deathsword is an IC and Blitz is very, very scummy. If we lynch Deathsword today, Blitz is still going to be the scummiest come tomorrow, meaning he's likely to be lynched. That's two nights of mislynches if you two are a scumteam. Pretty much the game in a bag.
As for parallel arguments i think that two people coming to the same conclusion for the same reasons makes them both more likely to be right.
Unless the people who are following are just trying to buddy a town player with good arguments that are nonetheless wrong. So far, I haven't seen anything original come from either of you regarding your lynch targets. That blatant bandwagoning feels scummy.
Maybe there's a possibility anailater and Blitz are a scumteam and anailater's trying to save him and i'm being suckered, but i don't think so.
This is also a possibility in my mind. My line of thinking goes like this:
- If Blitz is scum, then either Deathsword or anailater are his scumbuddy. I would focus on Deathsword for an entire day and see what we can dig up.
- If Blitz is town, then I suspect you and anailater. Since anailater is much more scummy, I would want to lynch him and see what turns up.
Just quickly running thru the remaining points i don't think i've answered:
I don't think the thing i brought up when i unvoted anailater was a rule disagreement. This is my first game. I was really unsure whether what i was doing was maybe horrendously wrong (i don't think it was now).
Keeping your vote on someone is fine. The only time I unvote, for example, is when I'm totally satisfied that my target is not the scummiest person in the game at the time, so I usually have my vote on one person or another. Of course, you don't need to play the same way I do.
The question Nerjin asked anailater… "why did you ask about avoiding being night-killed?". I thought that was a scummy thing to ask. Especially with all you'd been saying about how anything that might risk outing third parties was a really bad thing to be doing. Presumably you did too.
Nope. I assumed anailater was smart enough not to reveal any role he might have. Actually, the way I took the question was more along the lines of, "What do you(Nerjin) think is the best way to avoid being night killed?" When you read it like a threat and/or a way to find a night kill target, Nerjin's response becomes a LOT more town-sided. Essentially, it could be construed as, "Why do you want strategies for finding those who are trying to avoid being stabbed?"
In regards to not putting real pressure on anailater, a vote that looks like it is serious is a vote that has pressure. I think you're wilfully misinterpreting this.
Remember that my post was made in light of it being a thought experiment where you two are a scum team. In that mindset, your words are suspicious, though I do not find them inherently scummy overall.
PFP
Scripten: I'm not entirely sure what this question means. I'm fairly certain that, when I asked that question, you mentioned not to rolefish, so there's a mention. I think some other people accused me of it as well.
Inconsistency? I did say it was suspicious, yes, but that doesn't mean you can just be like 'OMG he's rolefishing' when the question specifically asks what role you think I have, not what roles everybody else has.
Not an accusation. I said not to do it, but I haven't used it as evidence for you being scum. There's far more accurate evidence in the thread thus far. Right now you're doing exactly what we've been accusing you of, which is deflection. I asked you why you're suddenly concentrating on rolefishing, when you've only been accused of being scummy for it once. You're responding by defending yourself from accusations of rolefishing, which is not why we think you're scum.
Deflection. Hence, you look like scum.