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[Powder Miner]

I'd like to join this PBP, maybe waitlist if I have to.
...i'd be for ranged weapons btw :p

[PewdsRocks]

We can't have a lot of ranged users for this kind of thing. Any more then 2 would make doing it similar to SAO impossible.

[Lyeos]

We can't have a lot of ranged users for this kind of thing. Any more then 2 would make doing it similar to SAO impossible.

What's with the massive push for it to be like that? Apparently people are interested in having more than one choice for combat - you know, not right in the thing's face.

Voting yes for ranged weaponry. Crossbowcrossbowcrossbow.

[3man75]

I'll join and I'd personally like pbp.

I will be mega merchant man!

[PewdsRocks]

Well before it got onto deciding on ranged weapons most people wanted it like SAO. The two don't fit together if you include more then a low number of ranged weapons given that SAO was based around skill in melee combat.

A couple of ranged weapons won't change that but will give you more options. A large number and it just turns into a game of whichever side has more bows wins.

[Powder Miner]

That's why medieval armies only had archers at all, right?

[PewdsRocks]

In SAO you don't have huge armies like that. You had a few dozen men at most the majority of which did not have shields.

Put in an enemy with large numbers of missile units and they'd get cut to shreds, just as happened in medieval times. The unshielded units were slaughtered en masse by bowmen. You can't combine SAO and large numbers of missile units without it removing the majority of what made SAO what it is.

[Lyeos]

Difference being, this is a game, weapons have stats. 
And you don't have to worry about running out of projectiles for a sword.

[PewdsRocks]

I know, but if you include a lot of ranged weapons then melee characters all but forced to carry a shield or odds are they're going to be killed by somebody with a bow. Only the defensive units in SAO used shields and even then only about half of them.

I'm not really bothered if we use lots of ranged weapons it just rules out using SAO as it's basis. A game that was based on small teams dueling with a far more powerful enemy in close combat can't be combined with large numbers of ranged units.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't work from a genre standpoint, if your using ranged weapons melee fighters can't engage at all because they'd get shot in the back, or the ranged fighters can't engage at all because they'd risk hitting the melee fighters.
The game will work fine just not based off a game that was built around skilled melee combat and nothing else.

[Lyeos]

I know, but if you include a lot of ranged weapons then melee characters all but forced to carry a shield or odds are they're going to be killed by somebody with a bow. Only the defensive units in SAO used shields and even then only about half of them.

Perhaps, but one would assume that carrying a shield would be preferable in a game with different stats for items anyways for defensive bonuses.

I'm not really bothered if we use lots of ranged weapons it just rules out using SAO as it's basis. A game that was based on small teams dueling with a far more powerful enemy in close combat can't be combined with large numbers of ranged units.

The only person I've seen specifically say they wanted to use them was myself, though others have voted to have them available. Limiting people to strictly one combat style - melee - is silly.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't work from a genre standpoint

Please, explain how you got to that conclusion. We don't have to be all attacking at once - hullo, ranged weapons to damage them as they approach. And if it's a huge enemy, there will be plenty of safe ways to attack it while the melee fighters are doing so as well. Besides, melee fighters would presumably get in each other's way if it was a large group attacking one person.

The game will work fine just not based off a game that was built around skilled melee combat and nothing else.

Ooookay? Only two people wanted it, or specifically mentioned, SAO. And the first to do so mentioned adding more ranged weaponry.

[PewdsRocks]

The SAO genre ruled out ranged weaponry for a reason. The SAO game was built on the principle that the person with the most skill would win so it put everybody on an even playing field. Mainly every single person in the game was a melee fighter.

A ranged fighter can defeat a melee fighter while being far less skilled if that melee fighter doesn't use shields which would have ruined the games design. In SAO very few people used shields despite the fact that shields made you far harder to kill in it because most either took heavy weapons like 2h axes and swords or used a single lighter sword for agility and relied on evasion to avoid harm rather then blocking.

A lot of the offensive fighters used lighter weapons and a lot of agility during combat, meaning they were constantly moving and attacking from beneath it, or jumping to hit it high or dodging side to side. A ranged fighter could not fire without running the risk of hitting those melee fighters.


Simple truth of it is SAO was never designed for ranged combat and in it the enemies moved so fast that shooting before they closed was all but impossible on the vast majority of enemies once you moved beyond the first few floors.
You had to get your defenders in the enemies face instantly to pin it in place for the rest to close in and bring it down.
You didn't have time to fire off volleys of arrows and the main battles which were the floor bosses were all in enclosed rooms as well so staying back to fire at the enemy wasn't an option because you had to go inside before you could fight it.

It's a great system but it's also limited to a specific style. You could take pieces of it out to use in this like the sword skills and job system but you couldn't add ranged weaponry into it as it is without wrecking it in the process.

[Teneb]

This can all be solved by not using SAO, it seems.

That said, I vote for ranged options (not limited to weapons, you know).

[PewdsRocks]

Yup, like I said I don't mind. I'll be using purely melee and no shield whatever the setting.

[RangerCado]

I have an idea for the ranged weapon debate.

At the highest skill levels of ranged weapons, you can use a variety of shortbows with low range and basic damage, but some decent arts.

At the lowest skill levels of ranged weapons, you have the throwing picks and spikes that don't even have arts.

At the middle skill levels of ranged weapons, you have throwing knives, daggers, and throwing stars with low range where you may only get 1-2 off unless your REALLY good evading the enemies advances. They would also have a few arts connected to them.

[WillowLuman]

The title has a few possibilities:
A VR MMO where the participants are not allowed to leave until it's over
The same, but only the protagonists are stuck. The other players can leave willy-nilly
A standard MMO, where the protagonists are sucked in to live it while interacting with players playing it on their computers.
More I haven't thought of.