Cheeetar[citation needed]
It is general public opinion, really.
For example,
this guy (also historian, and politologist) has
called him several times an idiot, while analyzing in this blog. Careful, links in Russian!
And I could find a lot more stuff like that, if I wished.
OwlbreadSo what historians do I have to quote for you to consider my arguments credible?
I can't really tell, it's just this one isn't the best choice, really.
I think that sounds a lot like a dodge. I heard them being described as subhuman monkeys. People who "aren't human". If you want to put that down to a non-racist, non-sectarian conflict of rural vs urban people hell mend you.
No, the attitude is really dependent on person's initial behavior. If that Caucasian doesn't assault you and acts like a normal, civilized person, then he is treated like a normal person. If the person behaves like a subhuman monkey, then he
is a subhuman monkey.
Some Caucasians in terms of appearance are hardly distinguishable from Russians (Chechen leader, Kadyrov, for example) and can be identified only by behavior or accent. Some Caucasians, like Armenians, are tan-skinned, yet very close to Russians in terms of mentality. So, this is a very complex matter.
I guess, those who say stuff about monkeys are either a minority (like the neo-nazis in Germany, for example), or do not really mean it. There are a lot of mocking and insulting nicknames in Russia for many ethnicities and neighboring countries - Ukraine for example is called "Khokhlostan", yet those say it do not actually feel hate or prejudice.
First, I said, "almost". Second, genocide is a mass killing of an ethnic group. These people were offered: either resettlement within Russian empire, or resettlement into Turkey. Only a small part chose to remain in Russia - and this group exists still. No intentional killings - no genocide.
No intentional killings...
"Yes, I believe that the concept of genocide against the Circassians was justified. To understand why we are talking about the genocide, you have to look at history. During the Russian-Caucasian war, Russian generals not only expelled the Circassians, but also destroyed them physically. Not only killed them in combat but burned hundreds of villages with civilians. Spared neither children nor women nor the elderly. The entire fields of ripe crops were burned, the orchards cut down, so that the Circassians could not return to their habitations. A destruction of civilian population on a massive scale is it not a genocide?"
In the modern era it is still possible to find the bones of Circassian civilians in valleys in Krasnodar Krai lying out in the open, butchered by Russian soldiers.
Russian wiki mentions burning the crops and stealing cattle. The main goal was to drive people out, to demoralize them - not to slaughter them.
And yes, it is somewhat justifiable, considering the war lasts for 50 years and it is not Russians, who started it.
So that warrants deporting the entire nation to another country, killing tens of thousands in the process?
A comparatively small nation, that literally has a robber culture and preys on your caravans, on your people? The war started, because these people attacked Russian people - no one cared about them and their territories before that for centuries.
If people cannot be reasoned with and cause trouble, you do not humbly endure that, you do something. And their resettlement to a place, where they cannot cause trouble, was a reasonable measure.
So because a number of Vainakhs supported the German invaders (there was no Crimean Tatar support of any meaningful sort) in an alliance that was extremely shaky and basically collapsed within a few years because they both hated each other's guts, that warranted the deportation of 500 000 people? An entire nation? To the middle of the steppe? With no food or work or services?
Rural Vainakh villages are self-sustainable medieval-style villages. They do not work or have sophisticated services. Most North Caucasians do not work even now - a true mountain-person is supposed to take things from others by force - work is humiliation for them. Besides, what's wrong with the steppe? Kazhakhs live there, they don't complain.
And many Crimean Tatars were collaborating with Germans. Maybe it was too harsh to condemn the whole nation for that, but they had quite a bad reputation already. Also, it is a very small nation - 500 000 people is like 1/20 of Moscow.
This is just wonderful. I really hope Ukrainian Ranger reads this because you'd make the same argument about the Holodomor. "It was just an accident, we didn't mean to kill 200,000 on purpose... Who knew what would happen if we put hundreds of thousands of people in packed, uninsulated, unheated freight trucks and sent them 2000 miles into the desert/steppe?"
Since they embarked in a steppe, I would expect them to dig, find a water source for a well, grow some plump helmets, build some workplaces and surround their fortress with walls to withstand a goblin siege.
This is the response I always hear when I make reference to the Russian state's appalling actions. "Oh but it happened in the 90s - we don't talk about the 90s". Where do you think the guys that committed those atrocities and gave the orders are today?
It's not that "we don't talk about the 90s" - it is that the 90s are a
really shitty time - a time of anarchy, economical collapse and territories falling apart. A geopolitical catastrophe. Whatever happened during that period - is a shameful part of our history, indeed.
The "foreign cultural nobility" of cultures considered useful to the establishment, like those you have repeatedly mentioned - Tatars and Bashkirs and my own mention the Ossetes.
Of course they must be useful. Geopolitics is not charity.
Fantastic. So the first Chechen War and the Second Chechen war had nothing to do with National Liberation or grievances about human rights abuses in the past, only foreign influence. Russia has never done anything wrong and outside forces are responsible for all your problems.
No, the Chechen Wars are our war against radical islamists. And radical islamism is bad, m'kay?
Ukrainian RangerOwlbread, That may be rude but... I suggest to stop wasting your time on a guy who has 25 posts over three years. Your arguments will not change his mindset and he is not a true Bay12er to care about his walls of text
If I post rarely, doesn't mean I dwell here rarely.
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Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread (Read 312341 times)