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[MarcAFK]

Should just get to naming this the Glorious Liberation of Crimea topic already if we're so dead set on parroting state media and feeding into victim complexes

Don't tempt me

(But the very first name of the topic - 3rd Soviet-Ukrainian war was the best one)

Sadly you called it correctly way back in January, though it's looking more likely to be much farther reaching than just Ukraine/Moscow, I'm actually rather worried that Russia's actions might trigger more violent nationalist revolutions in other countries that seemed relatively stable, yet fall apart as certain demographics lose confidence in their governments ability to keep Russia's influence out of their backyard.
In fact I'm surprised there hasn't been widespread violence against Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, either your most fanatical neo-nazi nationalists lack the resources to do this, or more likely; they lack the desire to do it. I'm thinking it's a good sign anyway.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

@UR: of course they are doing nothing, they are just the transitional government they fear the anger of somebody coming down on them the moment they do something and it turns out wrong. At that moment everybody will point at them " WHAT YOU DID WAS WRONG AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO DO THAT" ...so yeah apart from holding tight till the elections those guys won't do anything due to fearing for their own hides.

Yep. But doing not enough in times like that may leave us without a country...

Still that is the best government Ukraine ever had. But it still has to many guys with roots in the former system. And let's be honest: They sucked in a role of opposition, if opposition is good in can become government without waiting till people start a rebellion .

In fact I'm surprised there hasn't been widespread violence against Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, either your most fanatical neo-nazi nationalists lack the resources to do this, or more likely; they lack the desire to do it. I'm thinking it's a good sign anyway.

Whatever Russian propaganda may say, we have very few "All Russian speakers are enemies" kind of nationalist. Sadly after the events the number will raise but I think it will be manageable. And in long term very good for Ukrainian nationalism.

Nationalist is a very vague word. It's something like describing a person like "he is a member of Abrahamic religion". That can mean very different beliefs.

Same with Nationalism. You know what I think when I hear neo-nazi youth? "Guys to convert" not "Those demi-humans that must go to prison as soon possible" opinion that most liberals tend to have. In fact most of neo-nazi are guys who badly want to help their nation
They just choose easy routes Finding enemies and blaming them for everything bad that happens is one of that ways. As for Hitlerophilia... Well third Reich is alluring in it's  own way and young minds may fall in that trap

*Yep there are sadistic losers, paranoiacs  and sociopaths among them. Even worse they tend to take leadership. That's why it is extremely important to work with right youth. And work in style - "boo, you are a bad nazi, boo" will do nothing good.

[GlyphGryph]

Ugh, the pro-soviet folks in this thread... It's like talking to a goddamn southerner who wants to relive the glory days of slavery, or those who idolize racist imperialists like Jackson.

Stop justifying your own evils by arguing that other people were worse. This forgives nothing.

A country who romanticizes its brutal and terrible past and attempts to justify what was done as being not-so-bad, is a country that will have great difficulty ever moving on, and who are far more likely to try and justify evils being done in the present. There were terrible evils committed by the soviet government, and arguments about "well you can't criticize because it didn't effect you directly" are just... pathetic.

Actually, if the Russian folks in this thread have convinced me of anything, it's just how alike they are with the southern confederate stalwarts.

Unwilling to admit defeat. Constant apologists for the evils their people did. Stuck in the past. Constant persecution complex. Incredibly powerful Us vs. Them mentality. Strong internal narrative casting themselves as the righteous standing up against the pervasive encroaching forces of immorality. A need for strong ideological leaders and a willingness to look the other way when those leaders break the law. An entire historical view built around "Fuck you, got mine".

It really seems like the same exact sort of mentality. No wonder some hard-line conservatives are such big fans of Putin and Russia.

And if this isn't what the Russian posters in this thread were trying to convey, well... you might want to work on your communication a bit, because that's basically the only message I've gotten, over and over again.

[burningpet]

You are putting words into their mouths.

[RedKing]

Yeah, the Soviet Nazis only killed a few ten millions. Nothing bad or anything.

I'm going to repeat a question I've asked earlier - did Russians kill any of your ancestors (or oppress them)? Such a high level of anti-Russian sentiment coming out of all of your posts here is baffling. I'm genuinely confused.

Yes. Volga Germans. Forcibly deported from the Saratov oblast to Siberia and their villages bulldozed into the earth. Your move, tovarisch.

[smjjames]

You guys keep saying or thinking Ukranian Ranger is Russian, but isn't he actually Ukranian? And no I'm not going by his username alone.

[Sean Mirrsen]

You guys keep saying or thinking Ukranian Ranger is Russian, but isn't he actually Ukranian? And no I'm not going by his username alone.

...I think you have to be literally blind to think UR is Russian.

[smjjames]

You guys keep saying or thinking Ukranian Ranger is Russian, but isn't he actually Ukranian? And no I'm not going by his username alone.

...I think you have to be literally blind to think UR is Russian.

I'm not one of those who think UR is Russian, but several posters in the last few pages have claimed he is Russian or called him Russian.

Or rather I think it was just Comrade P. who was calling UR out as Russian, not sure if a few others were calling UR Russian.

[Helgoland]

You are putting words into their mouths.

Nope - the 'US did it too' argument comes up surprisingly often, even in a discussion this good.

I did not get that impression from my media. The impression I got was some discontent at the government in Kiev, then Russians. I didn't get the need to invade.

Because Russian Empire.

Now this is something I don't get - Sergarr, are you going soft? Hehe~

[XXSockXX]

The Crimean authorities claim they arrested the sniper from the shooting in Simferopol. They say it was a 17 year old from Western Ukraine, who shot at both sides to provoke an incident. If that is true (I haven't seen confirmation), I have to note that this would be the first instance of such a provokation in Crimea or in Ukraine that would be proven. Might very well just be a confused angry kid.

Yeah, the Soviet Nazis only killed a few ten millions. Nothing bad or anything.

I'm going to repeat a question I've asked earlier - did Russians kill any of your ancestors (or oppress them)? Such a high level of anti-Russian sentiment coming out of all of your posts here is baffling. I'm genuinely confused.

Yes. Volga Germans. Forcibly deported from the Saratov oblast to Siberia and their villages bulldozed into the earth. Your move, tovarisch.

That was directed at Mictlantecuhtli specifically I think.

Or rather I think it was just Comrade P. who was calling UR out as Russian, not sure if a few others were calling UR Russian.

That was sarcasm, he called him Russian politician No1.

Same with Nationalism. You know what I think when I hear neo-nazi youth? "Guys to convert" not "Those demi-humans that must go to prison as soon possible" opinion that most liberals tend to have. In fact most of neo-nazi are guys who badly want to help their nation
They just choose easy routes Finding enemies and blaming them for everything bad that happens is one of that ways. As for Hitlerophilia... Well third Reich is alluring in it's  own way and young minds may fall in that trap

*Yep there are sadistic losers, paranoiacs  and sociopaths among them. Even worse they tend to take leadership. That's why it is extremely important to work with right youth. And work in style - "boo, you are a bad nazi, boo" will do nothing good.

Exactly. There are plenty of people who easily fall for what looks like a simple solution and a clear world view. Maintaining democracy means you have to reach out to misguided people too, especially youths.

[gogis]

The Crimean authorities claim they arrested the sniper from the shooting in Simferopol. They say it was a 17 year old from Western Ukraine, who shot at both sides to provoke an incident. If that is true (I haven't seen confirmation), I have to note that this would be the first instance of such a provokation in Crimea or in Ukraine that would be proven. Might very well just be a confused angry kid.

That's most likely a fake
http://www.stopfake.org/militsiya-kryma-ne-podtverdila-novost-o-zaderzhanii-snajpera/

[smjjames]

Or rather I think it was just Comrade P. who was calling UR out as Russian, not sure if a few others were calling UR Russian.

That was sarcasm, he called him Russian politician No1.

Oh, apologies for misunderstanding.

[XXSockXX]

The Crimean authorities claim they arrested the sniper from the shooting in Simferopol. They say it was a 17 year old from Western Ukraine, who shot at both sides to provoke an incident. If that is true (I haven't seen confirmation), I have to note that this would be the first instance of such a provokation in Crimea or in Ukraine that would be proven. Might very well just be a confused angry kid.

That's most likely a fake
http://www.stopfake.org/militsiya-kryma-ne-podtverdila-novost-o-zaderzhanii-snajpera/

Very good then, thanks. I had only seen the initial report, not the second one denying it.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: More sanctions (click to show/hide)

The following individuals have been added to OFAC's SDN List:

BUSHMIN, Evgeni Viktorovich (a.k.a. BUSHMIN, Evgeny; a.k.a. BUSHMIN, Yevgeny); DOB 10 Oct 1958; POB Lopatino, Sergachiisky Region, Russia; Deputy Speaker of the Federation Council of the Russian Federation; Chairman of the Council of the Federation Budget and Financial Markets Committee (individual) [UKRAINE2].

DZHABAROV, Vladimir Michailovich; DOB 29 Sep 1952; First Deputy Chairman of the International Affairs Committee of the Federation Council of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

FURSENKO, Andrei Alexandrovich (a.k.a. FURSENKO, Andrei; a.k.a. FURSENKO, Andrey); DOB 17 Jul 1949; POB St. Petersburg, Russia; Aide to the President of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

GROMOV, Alexei; DOB 1960; POB Zagorsk (Sergiev, Posad), Moscow Region, Russia; First Deputy Chief of Staff of the Presidential Executive Office; First Deputy Head of Presidential Administration; First Deputy Presidential Chief of Staff (individual) [UKRAINE2].

IVANOV, Sergei (a.k.a. IVANOV, Sergey); DOB 31 Jan 1953; POB St. Petersburg, Russia; Chief of Staff of the Presidential Executive Office (individual) [UKRAINE2].

IVANOV, Victor Petrovich (a.k.a. IVANOV, Viktor); DOB 12 May 1950; alt. DOB 1952; POB Novgorod, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

KOHZIN, Vladimir Igorevich; DOB 28 Feb 1959; POB Troitsk, Chelyabinsk Oblast, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

KOVALCHUK, Yuri Valentinovich (a.k.a. KOVALCHUK, Yury Valentinovich); DOB 25 Jul 1951; POB Saint Petersburg, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

MIRONOV, Sergei Mikhailovich (a.k.a. MIRONOV, Sergei); DOB 14 Feb 1953; POB Pushkin, Saint Petersburg, Russia; Member of the Council of the State Duma; Leader of A Just Russia Party; Member of the State Duma Committee on Housing Policy and Housing and Communal Services (individual) [UKRAINE2].

NARYSHKIN, Sergey Yevgenyevich (a.k.a. NARYSHKIN, Sergei); DOB 27 Oct 1954; POB Saint Petersburg, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

OZEROV, Viktor Alekseevich (a.k.a. OZEROV, Viktor Alexeyevich); DOB 05 Jan 1958; POB Abakan, Khakassia, Russia; Chairman of the Security and Defense Federation Council of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

PANTELEEV, Oleg Evgenevich (a.k.a. PANTELEEV, Oleg); DOB 21 Jul 1952; POB Zhitnikovskoe, Kurgan Region, Russia; First Deputy Chairman of the Committee on Parliamentary Issues (individual) [UKRAINE2].

ROTENBERG, Arkady; DOB 15 Dec 1951; POB St. Petersburg, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

ROTENBERG, Boris; DOB 03 Jan 1957; POB St. Petersburg, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

RYZHKOV, Nikolai Ivanovich (a.k.a. RYZHKOV, Nikolai); DOB 28 Sep 1929; POB Duleevka, Donetsk Region, Ukraine; Senator in the Russian Upper House of Parliament; Member of the Committee for Federal Issues, Regional Politics and the North of the Federation Council of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

SERGUN, Igor Dmitrievich; DOB 28 Mar 1957; Lieutenant General; Chief of the Main Directorate of the General Staff (GRU); Deputy Chief of the General Staff (individual) [UKRAINE2].

TIMCHENKO, Gennady (a.k.a. TIMCHENKO, Gennadiy Nikolayevich; a.k.a. TIMCHENKO, Gennady Nikolayevich; a.k.a. TIMTCHENKO, Guennadi), Geneva, Switzerland; DOB 09 Nov 1952; POB Leninakan, Armenia; alt. POB Gyumri, Armenia; nationality Finland; alt. nationality Russia; alt. nationality Armenia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

TOTOONOV, Aleksandr Borisovich (a.k.a. TOTOONOV, Alexander; a.k.a. TOTOONOV, Alexander B.); DOB 03 Mar 1957; POB Ordzhonikidze, North Ossetia, Russia; alt. POB Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia, Russia; Member of the Committee on Culture, Science, and Information, Federation Council of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

YAKUNIN, Vladimir; DOB 30 Jun 1948; POB Vladimir Oblast, Russia (individual) [UKRAINE2].

ZHELEZNYAK, Sergei Vladimirovich (a.k.a. ZHELEZNYAK, Sergei; a.k.a. ZHELEZNYAK, Sergey); DOB 30 Jul 1970; POB Saint Petersburg, Russia; Deputy Speaker of the State Duma of the Russian Federation (individual) [UKRAINE2].

The following entity has been added to OFAC's SDN List:

BANK ROSSIYA (f.k.a. AKTSIONERNY BANK RUSSIAN FEDERATION), 2 Liter A Pl. Rastrelli, Saint Petersburg 191124, Russia; SWIFT/BIC ROSY RU 2P; Website www.abr.ru; Email Address bank@abr.ru [UKRAINE2].

Hmmm, like some surnames of Putin's  friends here.

[Dutchling]

Any idea why Putin himself isn't on the list?