GEnts i think we should start and keep Nazies and Soviets out of here, i think most of the Russians agree when i say that they are not the Evil Soviet Opressors they are made out to be and most of the Ukrainians and (propably enough angered Germans, like me) agree that they certainly aren't Nazies and the Rest of the West will propably agree that they aren't imperialists.
Now, if we could please turn the "Your Great-Grandfathers butchered my Great-Aunt of Third Degree in a [Insert Ethnical,Political, Religious Other Cleansing here] YOUR COUNTRY IS EVIL-INCARNATE!" off, that would be really nice.
Now fact is that yes the West has it's imperialists and people who go "MURRRRRICAAA" and Germany and Ukraine has its share of Neo-Nazies and Russia it's share of Soviet-Dudes who would like to see nothing more than UDSSR Flags hanging all over europe, but i think we can all agree that those people are in each country in a minority - Ukraine isn't ruled by Neo-Fascists but by Liberals,Old Guard and Some Nationalists which helped bring down Yanukovich and seem to get the Short End of the Stick now. And please get it straight here Nationalist equals NOT Fascist, Neo-Fascist and Nazi or Neo-Nazi. Those two ideologies while both being seen in the right corner are vastly different and like each other about as much as Communists or Socialists like Anarchists which are apparently considered to be in the left corner.
Next on the plate. Russia. IS also apparently governed by Nationalists with Imperialist Ambitions(that doesn't fit, imperialist seems to be an insult here for many so i strike that out...lets call it a healthy interest that your Neighbours don't join an alliance that was specifically made to defend aganst you). That is not an insult but my observation, otherwise you wouldn't hang around in Crimea. Now while i understand the argument of most russians here that Crimea wanted to go to Russia anyway, you have to agree that there is a sizable minority who doesn't want to and that those minorities couldn't express their true feelings in the referendum or their true opinion due to the soldiers of Russia that suddenly sat next to those Places where you can vote. I am not implying that you rigged the votes but if a guy with a gun stands next to you, while you vote and you know he has a different opinion...well you think twice where to make your cross. And not letting in those OSCE guys to make sure it wasn't rigged didn't help your case at all. tldr; you should have let the Crimeans vote all by themselves without any pressure through those soldiers and letting in the OSCE guys would have been nice too.
Next: the US. While i understand arguments from the Eastern corner that the Americans did the same in Iraq and (arguably) in Afghanistan, that doesn't make what you did in Crimea right. Nor for that matter does it make the Iraq right. The difference which you and i have to see here is that America (in contrary to Russia) is a close ally to Europe. You don't start sanctioning your allies now would you? If China marches right into Siam or Burma Russia would shrug. But if China annexes let's say ( im not so firm with central asian geography so if what i say next doesn't sound threatening enough replace it with something fitting) Khazakstan you Russians would not be very happy either i presume and since it's so close you would threaten sanctions too, no matter how many chinese lived in Khzakastan and wheter or not a part of it would like to declare independence and join China. The same it is with Ukraine. It's awfully close to Europe and if we are honest our shared History doesn't make Europe and Russia the best of Neighbours.
@UR: of course they are doing nothing, they are just the transitional government they fear the anger of somebody coming down on them the moment they do something and it turns out wrong. At that moment everybody will point at them " WHAT YOU DID WAS WRONG AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO DO THAT" ...so yeah apart from holding tight till the elections those guys won't do anything due to fearing for their own hides.
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Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread (Read 309201 times)