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[Ukrainian Ranger]

And what about Crimea? I heard accidentally that the want to become a state of their own, with blackjack and hookers Black Sea and tourists.

If they'll decide to go, I doubt that anything can stop them. There are large Russian support with those naval base and I doubt that many Ukrainians will be willing to wage war for that territory. And Autonomy makes separatism way more easy

If you ask my personal opinion: I want them out as soon as possible, and will clap aloud if they decide to do that. Unlike, for example, Donbass, it's not historical Ukrainian territory.  Stance over Crimea taken by majority of Ukrainian nationalists deeply saddens me. I am sure that promise to hold referendum over Crimean Independence\greater autonomy would win us elections in that region. Unfortunately imperialist notions is a dangerous decease that can infect just any right ideology. I had dozens heated discussions on that subject with other Svoboda members

[Owlbread]

The concern must also be what would become of the Tatars, to whom the Crimea rightfully belongs, not Russian immigrants/settlers sent by Stalin.

[XXSockXX]

The concern must also be what would become of the Tatars, to whom the Crimea rightfully belongs, not Russian immigrants/settlers sent by Stalin.

Though with the kind of nationalism you usually argue for, wouldn't Crimea also belong to the Russians who live there? I mean they are the majority there now and have been so for generations.

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, the Russian-Eu talks have recently finished.

They seem to have gone reasonably well. Concrete results are that a group of experts will look into the effects of the Accension Treaty for both EU and Russia; Not that usefull for Ukraine, but perhaps for other countries in the region.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The concern must also be what would become of the Tatars, to whom the Crimea rightfully belongs, not Russian immigrants/settlers sent by Stalin.

Yep, that's true.  Crimean Tatars are in shitty situation I  see no way to solve their situation barring  Stalin's methods

Spoiler:  Regional administration in Odessa (click to show/hide)

If the government fortifies like that, who can trust their intentions to negotiate?

[Owlbread]

Though with the kind of nationalism you usually argue for, wouldn't Crimea also belong to the Russians who live there? I mean they are the majority there now and have been so for generations.

If by generations you mean since WW2 i.e. within living memory... but they are the majority now as you say (whether that's right or wrong) and there's nothing we can really do about it. The civic nationalism that I argue would say that it's their Crimea too.

All we can do is try to protect the Crimeans and ensure that they don't lose their language or their culture, maybe the best thing is if Crimea remains a part of Ukraine subordinate to Ukrainian laws that would protect the Crimean minority. It would be easy for an independent Crimea to put forward a law stating that the only state language of the Republic is Russian. If a Ukrainian government could force the Crimean republic to have both Tatar and Russian as official state languages and support the Tatars in general maybe the Crimean Tatar nation could be rebuilt piece by piece to the point that they could sustain themselves in a bi-national state.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

One way exist, there are quite a lot of Crimean Tatars in Turkey. By inviting sufficient number back in Crimea, balance can be fixed but that's not easy to achieve in Ukraine as it is. And surely will not be done in Russian or Independent Crimea

[Owlbread]

One way exist, there are quite a lot of Crimean Tatars in Turkey. By inviting sufficient number back in Crimea, balance can be fixed but that's not easy to achieve in Ukraine as it is. And surely will not be done in Russian or Independent Crimea

If Crimean autonomy was abolished, thereby allowing the Ukrainian government to send enough Tatars back home to Crimea, that would cause terrible friction with the Russian population there. If the Tatars were invited to settle somewhere else in Ukraine as a temporary measure then find a way to trickle them into Crimea then that would also cause problems because any accommodation would be temporary and only god knows how long it would take or how much it would cost.

What kind of authority does the Ukrainian national government have in Crimea?

[XXSockXX]

If by generations you mean since WW2 i.e. within living memory...

Well, since WW2 it's easily 3 generations born there.
Unfortunately there is no way to reverse Stalins resettlement measures by even remotely acceptable means.

I agree that the Crimean Tatars would probably be better off in Ukraine, simply because they'd be an even smaller minority in Russia. I doubt an independent Crimea would stay independent for long, they'd probably rather join Russia.

[Owlbread]

Or become a client state like South Ossetia.

[scrdest]

Or become a client state like South Ossetia.

They already pretty much ARE a client state.

[Andrew425]

So for those people living in Ukraine, this has been in my newspaper for the past few days, the Vancouver Sun, with it occupying the 'Canada & World' section's front page on each of those day, so you are getting recognition from the other side of the World.

I'm not quite sure what it's take on the situation is though.

[Helgoland]

I think it's pretty sad that nationality (in the sense of being Tartaric, or Russian, or Ukranian, or whatever) should be of any relevance in non-cultural politics. I'm German, and I very much identify as German, but that doesn't keep me from advocating the abolishment of the nation-state - it's my firm opinion that we need to sever the union between administration and nationality that has been formed in the 19th century.

[GreatJustice]

Crimea is basically Russian now in terms of ethnicity, not so much Tartar. Anyhow, once you get into "historical ethnicity", especially with the Ukraine, then things get complicated, since a lot of modern Ukrainian land was claimed by Soviet-Ukrainians from other countries. Crimea was originally Tartar/Turkish but most of them are long gone and it is basically Russian now. Western Ukraine was largely seized from Poland, as the local Poles were either deported or executed by Ukrainian partisans of the time. A chunk of Bessarabia was taken from Romania/Moldava, though funnily enough has pretty strong Russian traditions too (another chunk, Transnistria, is basically a Russian satellite). Parts of eastern Ukraine are arguably Russian, too. At the end of the day, it really comes down to who now lives in the Ukraine to decide which regions go where.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Parts of eastern Ukraine are arguably Russian, too

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)