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Deathsword:
Imp
Deathsword:
@Deathsword: One of the newbies makes a serious error on day one - an error so obvious (to experienced players) that the newbie's role is clearly exposed, but it is reasonable to think that the other new players may not recognize it. How do you respond and why?
Imp: {Quote what you are answering. It takes little effort and helps a lot. People are not likely to search for whatever you are answering to.}
As for your question, I do not believe that there is any such thing as a confirmed player (role-wise). That said, if a person has done nothing scummy, then there is little reason to attack them. Of course, if they had been dropping tells and I was sure they were scum, they'd obviously be the focus of my efforts.
Just three posts later-
{Please, I cannot stress this enough: QUOTE. Press the quote button on the post you are answering to, delete the parts that are irrelevant to the answer. If you are answering more than one question, there is an insert quote button in the Post Reply screen that can add those posts to yours.}
Deathsword: I hear your IC advice, and appreciate it. I hear, and hear strongly, how important this quoting is, and can see why, after just a handful of posts, it does indeed get hard to track back to who is answering what where and why.
Please explain why you answered my question without quoting me, disregarding your own advice. Immediately before answering me you spoke of the need to quote who you answer, yet as a player yourself you immediately did not. Gamewise, this quoting is so important that you felt the need to repost additional IC advice just three posts later. Yet the two people who answered between your posts, all they did was do exactly what you had done instead of what you ICly said to do. Do you see some value as a player in the confusion that not quoting when answering someone causes, which as an IC you must speak against?
Imp: I was, and am, posting from my phone (PFP). That is already painfully hard to without quoting.
... I see, and sympathize. I hope to help make this as easy as possible for you, especially considering your pains and afflictions.
Failure to quote seems to increase confusion, and inability or refusal to follow an IC's advice, especially strongly given advice, which that IC believes takes little effort and has said cannot be stressed enough - this is confusing to me, in addition to the confusion failing to quote creates.
I do not believe confusion serves our full community of robots, and thus deeply misdoubt that we are on the same team. But I do hope for you a swift and painless end to your afflictions, both those known and those suspected.
Do you by any chance think that your malfunctions can be cured, or is destruction indeed the only viable option for you?
So, let me get this straight: you call me out that I was not quoting despite my adivce to do so. I explain that I was posting from a phone, and thus it was nearly-impossible to quote properly. So, because I was posting from a phone and due to that unable to follow my own advice, I am scum?
Not quoting may cause confusion, but never, at any point, with or without my IC voice, did I state that people didn't quote to cause confusion deliberately.
{Everyone, even scum, benefit from quoting. If you are town, it makes your arguments easier. If you are scum, people are more likely to believe your attempts to make someone else look bad.}
Imp
@Imp - Why do you think that an IC would use their IC powers to try and fool town?
Rolepgeek: Oh, I don't. Far as I understand, that would be breaking the rules as well - if it's not, please correct me, that would change how I think about the game.
As of now, I currently trust an IC voice in the game completely. I am jaw-droppingly astonished that the person behind the IC voice who strongly instructed 'quote when you respond' is - not following that IC direction as a player. Astonishing enough that I wondered why he would not do so, considering the length of his first PFP was quite long and very well worded, appearing to be something which he'd worked on for some time, and in general supports that he is an involved and intentioned player.
That first in-play post from Deathsword includes a length of strikethrough, use of color, even includes use of {} which are perhaps not conveniently placed characters to find on a phonepad. If quoting when PFP is hard, well, there's no rush to answer; he could hold his replies for a more convienient time.
I had the time to spare (even though I was on a phone) for that first post. I also had written that little IC speech before, which certainly helps. While there was no real rush to answer via PFP, I know myself enough that I would probably either forgot or be too lazy to post later in that day thus the phone post. Also the phone pad allows me to do some pretty fancy stuff, word-wise. The problem with quoting is that it is impossible to delete stuff from within quotes or format them in any way without ending up with a mess.
It is possible that he has no convenient time ever, sure. But just days before the game started Deathsword used a set of quotes in a post in this very thread -
IC in, seeing as you need one.
IC out
I'm starting a new job and am not entirely sure how much time I'll be having for a full on mafia game. I'll still be watching.
ZU, you seem to have missed those posts.
As you pointed out, these were before the game even started and I was at my PC (as I am now) during that.
Deathsword, I appreciate your explanation, and I'd like you to help me understand your reasoning and thought processes better. I'm going to refer to specific posts by letters and numbers, to help make it very clear what I am talking about. I am calling your first post A, and each consecutive post that someone else made after that point as A1, A2, and so on - until your second post, which I'm calling B and using numbers. In case this is confusing, or people wish to double check details, I'll link each letter or letter/number combination with the post it represents.
In
A, your IC voice states to quote when answering, says it takes little effort and helps a lot. Your player voice follows this use of IC voice, answering me without quoting, and without explanation as to why no quote was used. Did you perceive a discrepancy in this at the time?
Other players post
A1, without using quotes and
A2, which does use quotes. You immediately respond with
B, a pure IC voice post saying "Please, I cannot stress this enough: Quote." You even explain how to use quotes, and how to use multiple quotes.
What were you thinking when you did this? Also, what were you thinking about your own action of having not used quotes in your own answer as a player, and how this relates to your own advice as an IC? It seems impossible to me that you could have been unaware of your own actions of inconsistency. Post
A1 did nothing but do what you did - and you followed it with the firmly worded post
B - but you did not explain, as IC or as a player, why -you- were not doing what your IC voice said, -nor- did you correct as an IC your previous claim from
A that "Quote ... takes little effort" to include that quoting sometimes does take a lot of effort, even so much that it's not reasonable to do at all. Which, by the way, as your IC voice will never lie nor mislead - that claim of quoting taking little effort - must be true AND most especially must be true for you, because those words have to come from your own understanding and experiences with how quoting works and the effort it takes.
In your post
D, your words as a player directly contradict your words as an IC; as a player you refer to posting (by phone) as "painfully hard ... without quoting". And in your post
E, you say, again as a player. "The problem with quoting is that it is impossible to delete stuff from within quotes or format them in any way without ending up with a mess." This directly contradicts your IC statement in
A, where you said, "Quote what you are answering. It takes little effort". I do believe your IC statement, completely.
Now, I don't have a problem with you as IC, with your IC voice, or with how you have used it. I am not saying that you have spoken wrongly, at all, as an IC. But you strike me as intelligent, and I do not think you could have been unaware of the discrepancy in your player words and actions. And that inconsistency makes no sense to me.
I do not have a very strong feel of you as being Scum or not Scum. But you feel 'not town' to me - and I have little way to interpret that except as your being Scum. Please, help me understand and think as you think, how you could as a player feel comfortable and natural acting and speaking this way, without having felt any need to explain further, because these are really, blatantly obvious contradictions that fly in the face of assured truth. If your player actions made sense, I believe I would feel far less of a 'not Town' vibe from you. I sure hope you can help me understand and think as you think.
- And note, I am not asking you to step in as an IC and explain anything. When you see fit to speak as an IC, do so. I am talking -about- your IC voice sometimes in this, but my concerns are about your actions as a player, and I am talking -to- you as a player. And if you provide an unsatisfactory player-level answer, I will treat it as an unsatisfactory player-level answer, even if it is accompanied by a perfectly correct IC-level response.
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Superblackcat:
Talk us through how you think a group of players should handle day 1 then? Who would say what to whom and why? I understand that you don't think questions without reasons are the way to go, so what should happen instead? Do you think Mafia games should actually start with the night phase or something, so we all have a night kill to talk about, or what?