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[Rolepgeek]

Alright. I have a dance tonight, so I'll just respond. *sigh*

@Imp - I'm not quoting that behemoth. I'm sorry, but I'm not.

To clarify; I would not night-kill them based solely on their experience. I would try to night-kill in such a way to sow dissent and confusion, and killing the ICs doesn't necessarily do that. And, since I'm still learning, it's good to let them do stuff and give IC advice, which NQT did far less last game after he was NKed.

As for lynching, the answer is a resounding no. There is a higher likelihood of them being Town then Scum, purely statistically if nothing else, and their help will be invaluable. Therefore, not considering anything else in this context, I would not lynch solely because they are more experienced(due to the strangeness of the english language, that can be interpreted in two ways. I mean that I will not lynch them for the purpose of getting rid of their experience by doing so, which is the best way I believe I can phrase that. >.>)

[Squill]

@Squill:

This is a completely hypothetical pair of questions.  I understand you are a new player, as am I - but I'd still like your best answers please.

1)  I want you to pretend that when you got your role PM, you found out that you were the town Jailkeeper.  The game has progressed to the first night - but no lynch happened (maybe because the majority vote was for no lynch, maybe because the lynch vote was a tie).  This means that every player in the game is still alive - using the information you have right now, what player would you pick to lock down, and why would you pick that one?

2)  I want you to pretend that when you got your role PM, you found out that you were the town Rolecop.  The game has progressed to the first night - but no lynch happened (maybe because the majority vote was for no lynch, maybe because the lynch vote was a tie).  This means that every player in the game is still alive - using the information you have right now, what player would you pick to investigate, and why would you pick that one?

Is this in the context of this game specifically, or for any game?

[Imp]

@Squill:

This is a completely hypothetical pair of questions.  I understand you are a new player, as am I - but I'd still like your best answers please.

1)  I want you to pretend that when you got your role PM, you found out that you were the town Jailkeeper.  The game has progressed to the first night - but no lynch happened (maybe because the majority vote was for no lynch, maybe because the lynch vote was a tie).  This means that every player in the game is still alive - using the information you have right now, what player would you pick to lock down, and why would you pick that one?

2)  I want you to pretend that when you got your role PM, you found out that you were the town Rolecop.  The game has progressed to the first night - but no lynch happened (maybe because the majority vote was for no lynch, maybe because the lynch vote was a tie).  This means that every player in the game is still alive - using the information you have right now, what player would you pick to investigate, and why would you pick that one?

Is this in the context of this game specifically, or for any game?

This game specifically.

[Squill]

@Imp:
1: Probably you, as you are by far the one who posts the most. It means that you are either a. A scum, furiously working to appear useful to the town, or b., a townie who is extremely active, and very aggressive with pressuring; which makes you seem like an important target for scum, and a large loss to town if you are killed.

2: I'm still thinking about this one, I'll get back when I figure something out.

[Superblackcat]

@Imp, Frankly, Looking at Mr Zero's question, He was attacking me for one of my answer's, which was a response to all the questions asked at the beginning of the game. Which were mostly, How come you play mafia?, How did you do last game? And other questions such as that. I personally believe those to be useless, and as you can see, I am participating within the question asking. However, I'm not asking questions, that you ask, such as "What would you do if X?". Throughout my time playing mafia, I have not found it particularly useful. I believe the first half of the question to be Meta, which would bias people wrongly, especially if they were actually mafia last game. No matter how hard it is not to be biased, they would be. That's why I try to ignore all posts that ask those questions.

The second half of the questions I'm talking about... Well I'm not sure what the use is. If you could, could you please fill me in as of why you think asking these questions are useful.

For MrZero's Question's. Some of the questions sounded like prompts, telling me to go out and answer the questions, and Frankly, I'm pretty sure before that post, I did answer any and all questions I saw directly to me. If I did not, I probably just missed them, or read over them.


I am pretty sure I was not in a defensive stance, so I ignored that. Most of MrZero's question's were leading question's, designed to make you look scummy. He wrote the defensive stance, so when everyone else looks at what I have written thus far, they would automatically assume I'm in a defensive stance.

"Why haven't you asked a single question?" I have now, But back then, there was no question for me to ask, as there was nothing for me to go off of. Most of you guys were asking questions based off of previous games, and as you read above, I don't.

I stated that. (Not sure how to link, but you guys can go down and click the link in Imp's quote) because it is basically the 2 options open to us. First is NL for today and tomorrow, Second is RL today, and if we do get a mafia. Great, if not, we killed someone that may have been important.

There are pro's and con's to both sides.

First of all. If we Mis lynch the RL, then the same amount of townies die. two.

The pro, however, to NL, is that we get 2 days/nights to discuss, untill d3, where it becomes Lylo. We will be able to see mafia's reaction to what is discussed in the day, and who they kill. Giving us more to go off of. Also, the cop may get a mafia, and then it makes it a lot easier.

The con is that there is no chance that a mafia will die, as it will be the mafia killing for both.

The pro to the RL, the mafia kill, would be that we will get a chance to kill mafia, however small that is.

The con is that we get less time for everything, meaning that the cop only gets 1 night (assuming there is a cop) and we only get one night to scum hunt.


Personally, because I think the chance of actually killing the mafia is quite small, I would prefer two NL's. However, if there was something drastic happen, in the next several of hours, a RL may be what we need.


Speaking of that.

Extend more!

I believe if you guys think I still have not answered kleril's question, I'm not sure how to further answer it.


For my contradictions. I mean that every single forum has different norms for playing Mafia. I've never played on a forum where massive amount of question is the norm. To everyone. And so, I'm saying I'm not used to this style of mafia. On this forum. I'm quite used to mafia itself, however.

I also mean that I have never played this setup, and the jailkeeper is very different from the doctor, and will make a lot of what I do in other games hard to impossible. Such as cop outing, the doc protect. In this said mafia game, Cop outing is... Bad. Unless scum of course.

My suggestions, are what I believe should be done today, which was what you asked me, was it not?

Why should I not say strategies, that I think we should follow. I'm not just taking strategies from other mafia games I've played, I don't just randomly throw them out there. I did think about them, and decide which ones pertain to this game, and how I could make them better for this game.

Is that wrong?

For the NL. I don't think I really agree with whoever wrote that. D1's info never goes away. It's always there. Whenever you choose to use it, it's always there. It's just that, on D3, You also get D2's and D3's info to lynch on Lylo, While if you RL today, you get only D1's and D2's information to lynch on lylo. I believe having 3 days of information makes it better to get a read on someone, Seeing whether it is correct or not to lynch them.

Also, How is RL (and may I say, most likely mislynching) any better than NLing. So killing your own townie for the mafia>Mafia killing townie?

I gave you the pros and con's, as I see, ^ there. Right now, I believe NLing outweighs RLing.

Ok.
So you've never played a mafia game before?
Or at least this one.

So, please answer the question, What do you think we should do today?

Frankly, I feel like you guys think I am scum, purely on the fact that I play this differently from you guys, And you guys have never seen it played another way.

Let me give you an example. On another forum, Sometime ago (about a month) I was playing a mafia game. In the game, I was mafia... The setup, IMO, was horrendous, 9/2, Meaning, that townies got 2 Mislynches. There were also both doctor and cop inside the town.

Me, and one of the townies suggested Cop to out, especially on day 2, then have doc protect. I did the math, there was absolutely no way for the town to lose if the cop outted, unless, Cop died n1, doc died n2, or something horrible like that. However, of course, the town did not take the suggestion, and lost. During all this time, the Killed the other townie who suggested it, purely because he suggested it. Believing him to be scum, and trying to get the cop out in the open. In fact, it was a valid strategy, and a much better one than the town was using, because it gave you for sure's. Like X is For sure not scum, so ignore him, no matter how scummy he seems.

Frankly, the Town played badly, and people weren't very active. (another reason I won) However, people killed just because what someone suggested was foreign to them.

Take ^ how you want. I'm pleading for my case, because the two most active people in this game is after me, and I'm not mafia.

@MrZero

Yes pointing fingers is part of the mafia game, no pointing fingers without evidence is NOT part of the mafia game.

Where have I attached myself to the findings of others? The only spot you can say this, is where someone called you out on your first post, and I called you out on it myself, sometime later. I do believe that was scummy, and ...?

Yes, I don't have as much suspicion. But enlighten me, Why don't you want to tell me who you FOS, who you think is Town? That does not hurt anyone. And it give people much more insight, IMO, than the question you guys are asking. That is how I hunt scum, and you just refused to answer my question.

 

[Squill]

@Superblackcat: This is not a game of self preservation. If you lynch a scum, great. If you lynch a townie, who voting for who can give a lot of information.

[Lukeinator]

@Lukeinator:

This is a completely hypothetical pair of questions.   I understand you are a new player, as am I - but I'd still like your best answers please.


I want you to pretend that you are this game's Scum IC (Pretend that someone else has your player spot and happens to have answered exactly as you have so far).  You have access to the scum private chat, you know who the real scum players are, and it is your duty to give them the best advice you can towards winning the game for their side.  So far, these two players have not logged into the scum's chat, so they never got any of your advice - but they just have now and are both listening to you.

1) Pretend that the scum players whom you advise are Superblackcat and Kleril.  They ask you for advice about what they should do for the rest of the Day.  They also ask you for whom you think they should pick to Night Kill - and for who you recommend the Mafia Rolecop investigate.  What is your advice?

2)  Pretend that the scum players whom you advise are Rolepgeek and Mr.Zero.  They ask you for advice about what they should do for the rest of the Day.  They also ask you for whom you think they should pick to Night Kill - and for who you recommend the Mafia Rolecop investigate.  What is your advice?

I would tell them to chose someone who isn't the Rolecop, or a Mafia.

[Superblackcat]

Squill, I would prefer, and I think the town would prefer myself staying alive. It is self preservation, if they are trying to lynch you, and you know yourself to be a townie. Of course, Any mafia member would say the same.

[Imp]

@Superblackcat:

Hey there   I'll say first that I like you plenty.  You discuss feeling like "the two most active people in the game [are] after you" - one of them's surely me, and I promise you, I'm not only after you.  I'm after every player in the game, even griffinpup.  Especially griffinpup... grrrr.

One thing you do look like is pretty easy to pressure, and that you feel so much pressure you're maybe having a hard time doing anything but trying to defend yourself.  Presuming that you are Town, that doesn't help anyone but Scum.

I totally believe it is a mistake to focus purely on self defense.  Honestly, it doesn't -matter- if people are suspicious of you or not, even if they are certain and wrong.  You know your alignment.  No matter what your alignment is, even if you are lynched or night killed first, if your team wins, -you- win.  It would be nice to be still alive at the end of play, but none of us can be sure we will be - so don't let fear of 'what if' change 'what is', alright?  Right now IS, tomorrow's only going to be there for some of us, and that is guaranteed.

Play your very best, right now, because yeah, right now is maybe the only thing we have.  You might be dead by D2, and so might I.  That understanding affects my play.  I am giving my team everything I have -today-, because I may be unable to give my team anything after today.

You have shown us how really hard you will work to try and clear your name by trying to explain your innocence.  I could analyze your post and go over it detail by detail, comparing it to your earlier words and show were you make good Town points and where you still sound Scummy, but I don't think that helps overall.  I've already posted an analysis of your play recently.

If anyone besides yourself wants me to post another considering your innocence given your most recent posts, please ask for that.  Otherwise I'm going to assume that everyone else is happy with their own thoughts about you for now.

As I am certain you want to clear yourself of suspicion, Superblackcat, I'm going to tell you what you need to do to fully ease my concerns about you - you need to post in a way that allows me to understand from your viewpoint WHAT TO DO to win as town, especially in this specific game.  If you want to TELL US what to do, do it in a way that it could be followed with or without you remaining alive to continue to act on it yourself as the days progress.  The scum could pick you for nightkill, right?  And your help would be lost to us, so make sure we can understand and use your great plan to ensure a Town win, even if you are dead before Day 2.

But that's the far, far weaker way to ease my mind.  The strong and clear way is to SHOW US BY USING IT.  Of course, you have already been doing that, right?  From your very first post after play start, you are working towards a Town win the very best way you know how - step it up a bit, will you?  Your strategy is so unfamiliar to me, I can't understand it and I don't follow it as a way for Town to win.  I hear you say what not to do, and I see you not doing much of anything - better make it clearer fast WHAT TO DO to find these scum using your methods.  Be a bit more obvious and comprehensible, could you?  So that if the Scum catch on to what you are doing, at least Town has caught on too and can continue your great plan should you somehow be the first nightkill.

I am perfectly willing to support anyone's request for an extension still.

But don't feel too much pressure, alright?  I like you plenty.  I'm not even switching my vote to you now.

Unvote

@Lukeinator:

Wow guy.  I am disappoint.

I would tell them to chose someone who isn't the Rolecop, or a Mafia.

Right now, you look to me like a player who doesn't care or is trying to hide his newbieness.

Big clue - being a newbie in Beginner's Mafia isn't something you should try to hide.  Assume it's branded on your fingertips and shows through in your every post.  So don't try to hide it, don't try to avoid showing it, and ESPECIALLY don't try to make it the only message your words send.  What I want to know about you is are you newbie Town or newbie Scum.  I know you're newbie.

What I demand from you is action.

Also, if you could pick a side, would you pick Mafia or Townie?

Townie. Hunting is way more interesting than hiding to me.

Yay!  You've said one useful thing so far.  You've told us you are more interested in hunting than hiding.

Where is your hunt?  YOU ARE HIDING.  STOP HIDING.   Fear not, that you appear newbie.  Fear not, that you might make mistakes.  IF YOU ARE TOWN IT IS A WORSE MISTAKE TO SIT THERE SILENTLY.  If you are scum, you're doing great.  You look like a terrified newbie scummie, one who is so certain that anything he says will make it obvious he is scum, and he can't cope with that, so he'd rather sit there silently and make it obvious he is scum.

You dare say you prefer to hunt, but have been doing NO HUNTING?

Get up!  Get active!  If you're wrong be wrong.  At this point, you are so passive that if we mislynch you today, I will be glad!  OMGUS!  Get up!  Take action!  At this point you would actually be doing yourself a favor even if you utterly ignored my question that you so weakly and only partially answered but turned active and started hunting like you say you want to do!  Note that is NOT the best course of action - better would be to answer me as best you can AND started actively hunting like you claim you want to do.  NOTHING BUT YOU IS STOPPING YOU FROM HUNTING.

OMG, you reek so strongly of hiding newbie that I can only scream scum at the sight of you.  Your behavior feels to me like the only thing you think could make you look less like scum than posting is to just accept looking like scum through inaction, because you believe your play is so bad that any actions you take will look even scummier than inaction.

If you continue to play like you are, I will use every bit of persuasion, every bit of charisma, and every bit of logic I possess to try to convince this group of players that making you the first lynch is the best possible plan, even if that proves to be a mislynch.  After all, we're hunting two scum.   Even if we think we know who one of them is already, there's still the second - and wow, right now you look so much like a desperate scum that even if you are Town, you're helping to hide the real scum through your own laziness, fear, indecision, or whatever.  GET ACTIVE AND HUNT LIKE YOU CLAIM YOU WANT TO, OR GET OUT.  I will work with my fullest energy to remove you from play if you do not shape up, because even if you are Town, acting as you are helps only Scum and your behavior so far in this game is a blight upon it.  FIX IT OR BEGONE.

[Squill]

Is there such a thing as voting, not to pressure for scumtells, but to pressure for activity?
'Cus I think that's what may be about to happen.

[Tiruin]

ZU: Spoilspec please-if only to give access to deadchat, thanks.

[kleril]

Sorry I've been posting so little this past day / day and a half. I've spent most of it in transit and with family, and so my ability to follow the game had been hindered. I should be able to post a lot more now.

@Imp:
I'm not sure if it's the smart thing to do, but I think you deserve an Unvote.

You called my vote on Deathsword "going along with the bandwagon" first, and maybe that was just a misuse of terminology.  Other people, including the IC voice, disagreed with that choice of words

This is quite possible. Considering this is my first game of mafia to take place on a forums, the feel is quite different. The first supporter of an accusation (not accuser, mind you) in my experience has tended to be scum rather than town, although this is usually simply a well placed nod or grunt meant to subtly sway the group, rather than a formal accusation.
My lack of response was to try and let you react, and considering you've been more inquisitive rather than defensive over this, it has put me somewhat at ease in my suspicion.

Hopefully this clears up the issues Zero and Death had with my previous post.

Imp, I do not believe that you are scum. Really, you have me completely convinced that you are town, and that's what I'm wary about. Your words have a lot of sway, and it scares me.

This is your first game of mafia?

[Rolepgeek]

@Rolepeek No, but I think the questions should be relevant to the game, instead of random questions like you guys are asking, and the massive amounts of questions.

Do you still think that the questions are irrelevant to the game? Do you think fewer questions should be asked? Fewer questions means less information, even if it's just white noise, which helps the scum. Even seemingly unrelated questions can be sifted through for information. Why would you want that to happen? That is, if I'm not misunderstanding you.

As for your comments about a D1 NoLynch, I would disagree. Only on paper is it better. While there is that single extra Day of info from a no lynch, that doesn't actually have to deal with quantity of information, and without a lynch, votes, what they turned up as, and then the 'free' nightkill, Town is at a disadvantage.

?

@Imp - Why do you think that an IC would use their IC powers to try and fool town?

Rolepgeek:  Oh, I don't.  Far as I understand, that would be breaking the rules as well - if it's not, please correct me, that would change how I think about the game.

As of now, I currently trust an IC voice in the game completely.  I am jaw-droppingly astonished that the person behind the IC voice who strongly instructed 'quote when you respond' is - not following that IC direction as a player.  Astonishing enough that I wondered why he would not do so, considering the length of his first PFP was quite long and very well worded, appearing to be something which he'd worked on for some time, and in general supports that he is an involved and intentioned player.

That first in-play post from Deathsword includes a length of strikethrough, use of color, even includes use of {} which are perhaps not conveniently placed characters to find on a phonepad.  If quoting when PFP is hard, well, there's no rush to answer; he could hold his replies for a more convienient time.

It is possible that he has no convenient time ever, sure.  But just days before the game started Deathsword used a set of quotes in a post in this very thread -

IC in, seeing as you need one.

IC out

I'm starting a new job and am not entirely sure how much time I'll be having for a full on mafia game. I'll still be watching.

ZU, you seem to have missed those posts.

Thinking about what I have observed and spoken of, it makes no sense for him to do if he is Town, and little sense for him to do as Scum.  Thus I am not convinced that he, as a player, is Scum, though I am suspicious.  But as these contradictions make completely no sense to me in considering him as a Town member, and I'm not more suspicious of anyone else at this point, I feel comfortable for now in my vote.

I am willing to unvote if someone else seems significantly more suspicious, or if I come to understand that what seems wrong to me about Deathsword's actions is actually quite reasonable and what a conscientious Town member would do.  And if what seems wrong to me doesn't seem wrong to anyone else, by all means, vote as you seem fit.  Just say why, please, unless it's random - I'd like to understand and see what anyone thinks they see.

I still absolutely trust Deathsword as IC though - I don't think he's using anything IC to try and fool town or otherwise abuse IC.

All right, Unvote. I looked at your huge topic about something that doesn't have to do with him being scum or not, and to me it seems like a giant misdirect. It doesn't have to do with scum-hunting, it has to do with behavior and/or etiquette, and you take things out of context to try and make a point. Sorry Imp, but you're being a bit fallacious in reasoning in that case. You go on to ask strange questions about highly specific scenarios in a different post, which is fine and dandy except that they're so specific there stops being a point to them. If they were more vague, you could glean info about their playstyle and general demeanor, perhaps, but right now it just looks like active-lurking. Yeah, you're asking questions, and yeah, they're related to the game, but they don't actually help anyone.

@Mr.Zero - You're asking awfully in depth questions for hypothetical scenarios. Are you trying to learn what someone would do if they were scum so you can fake it?

Hypothetical scenario's don't have a limit, they can be as big as you can think them up, though it can and will get tiresome for the questioned one to answer it. But the more you know about the thought process of a player, the more you'll be able to understand his/her reasoning. This can increase your judgment abilities as you will be able to pinpoint more precisely if the said player is scum or not.

True. But on the other hand, you can't be sure they're telling the truth, nor can you be sure you understand their thought process. Plus, from what I can tell, I just don't think it really has to do with someone being scum or not. After all, all you can be sure of is that if what they responded with happens, it's not them, or it is them and they're stupid, or it is them and they're incredibly clever. It just seems pointless at a certain point to ask such specific questions. But, I can see why you did it.

[Superblackcat]

@All Could everyone list out their top FOSes (If you have more than one as of now) and top TOWNies (If you have more than one)

That's what I want to happen right now. Any and all active people/ nonactive people who happen to see this. Go and reread, figure out who your top FOS, and your top Town Tells are. Give a reason.

The only person who responded to this, MrZero, Blew it off. There is no reason to hide it, yet he is trying to hide it.


Top FOS: MrZero, Because he asked a very funny at the beginning (or a few) and then blew this question off, while showing that he saw it, seems like He is trying to hide who he wants dead.

Griffinup- IC's in and then Noshow.

Deathsword- No activity after being voted... Seems kinda like lurk...

Top Town: Squill - I like his reasoning thus far, and the way he responded to me does not sound like mafia. Mafia wouldn't care if I was self preserving.


Others:

kleril doesn't seem scum, but He hasn't had enough activity of the late for me to tell...

I agree with what kleril said about Imp.

Lukeinator, I agree with Imp, the answer was highly lacking.
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I'm guessing since I didn't give it a full post, and it was at the bottom, people skipped over it.
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@Luke, What do you think should be done today, What should we be doing, Who do you think is mafia?

@Imp, Please answer my earlier question.

[Superblackcat]

My bad, Deathsword became inactive 2days and 8 hours ago, However, not directly after vote. He became inactive after me and Imp had large walls of text.

His last activity on the forum is today.


Please say something Death.