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AngelxAlistair (Toy ship ahoy!)

2 (8.7%)

RichardxCyrielle (Yes, she's a side character. No, that does not make this any less cute.)

0 (0%)

MariaxSelinaxYurixNuriel (HAREM)

5 (21.7%)

RichardxCamille (The only couple who knew each other for longer than two months. Woo~)

1 (4.3%)

AshleyxConnyxNurielxBismuth (OPPOSING HAREM)

1 (4.3%)

LylexEveryone (An Uke and five Semes. Go figure.)

2 (8.7%)

AlistairxCatherine (Minako, eat your heart out.)

0 (0%)

MariaxSelina (The original, accept no substitutes.)

1 (4.3%)

LyleXRichard (Too much yuri, not enough yaoi.)

1 (4.3%)

IzzyxLucas (Because a normal tsundere is not enough.)

1 (4.3%)

WillxStella (*insert witty tagline here*)

2 (8.7%)

MariexEveryone (Marie, duh.)

2 (8.7%)

AshleyXRichard (Screw retcons, I want my OTP now!)

1 (4.3%)

MariaxMattxSelina (The original OT3. And who was Matt again?)

2 (8.7%)

Richard/CyriellexFourth Wall (Who didn't see this coming?)

2 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[Akroma]

before you guys get started, this is not a rant, no argueing. It's just something that sort of concerns me, a balancing issue that needs to be adressed, if we are going to win againt Luthar in a timely manner - and we need to, because a) he is not even the main boss and b) long drawn out fights *kill* this game.

the problem at hand, explained via ICARUS stats

ICARUS and Luthar both have 25 dex - which means to hit Luthar, there is a 50% chance

ICARUS has 15 strength and Luthar has 50 (!!!!) endurance - to deal any damage whatsoever, ICARUS needs to roll above 35 - there is only a 30% chance of that happening, meaning there is a total of 15% chance to deal any damage whatsoever. And these attacks deal, at max, between 1 and 15 damage, so on average 8 damage. Lets be grateful and say that with the above chances, 2 out of 10 attacks damage Luthar, that's 14 damage in 10 rounds, giving ICARUS a DPS of 1.4 points of damage per turn.

I did the math for other characters, most don't get above 1 damage per turn - and that's before taking into account
- the dex buff giving Luthar another 10% evasion
- the strength debuff reducing our chances to damage Luthar by another 10%
- the barrier adding another 50% (roughly, actually a whole lot higher) chance of us missing

Luthar has about 800 health - you can imagine just how long it will take to actually defeat the dude even with all character pummeling on him at once, and I repeat, that guy is not even the main boss, who has even more ridiculous stats.

So before I start bitching about how utterly broken and bullshit this is - which it is (Did this thought never occur to Sanure or Elf during discussions that the enemy also needs to be defeated in less than an IRL month?), it's time for what ICARUS does best - strategy.

a) we need to take out all of the buff/debuff demons. That should be doable quickly.
b) EVERYONE needs to attack Luthar. Wether or not we will deal damage is irrelevant, this only has one purpose - to distract Luthar from the only character who can actually do something - Neferis. Luthar only has 10 Strength - Once Neferis is successfully grapplöing Luthar, Luthar can no longer move, at least for a few turns.
c) As this does not change the fact that we can not harm Luthar and his mountainous End, we will now proceed to collapse the ceiling on him. This will not kill him, however we have taken away his teleportation key, and 10 Str. is NOT enough to save yourself from a cave-in, let alone move a finger.
d) Neferis, who can walk through walls, leaves the cave-in with no problem. We proceed to kill any remaining demons that attempt to free him from the cave-in

and bam, Luthar is neutralised, in what, I'd say 5 turns at max? As opposed to the 50+ turns we would need for Luthar otherwise, that is a bit more acceptable.


((also what, we were all in the matrix? God damnit guys, yeah go ahead and make any char development that happened and that was planned, alongside all the plots I had planned irrelevant))


edit: btw, as I am pro-overwhelming odds, I take this turn of events as a good thing. That we are unable to simply devastate Luthar to dust by sheer numbers, and instead need to act strategicaly, making use of environment, our own strengths and Luthars weaknesses is a positive thing. Still, as this seems entirely unintended, god damnit Sanure and Elf, you need to think twice before slapping stats higher than 40 in dex or endurance. They seriously can make or break a fight. High str, mag or mind, no problem, but dex and end are the game makers

[Akroma]

on second thought, I think I *could* make ICARUS work in such a reboot of the game, but the question is, who GMs the subsequent overthrow of the layar, and *how long will that take*?

In about 2 months, I'm on full scale employment that will have me wake up early, be busy during the day, and likely so tired in the evening that I won't be GMing anything.

Sigh, like this my plot will never start....


edit: on third thought, no. ICARUS started as non-sentient and worked her way slowly to what she is today. All that having been a simulation and then some sloppy retcon shit entirely on EVERYTHING

[Empiricist]

For now, it's a "swarm combat" button. Also, a guarantee nobody will ever die, because teleporting out. Frankly, Keiths leg was ripped off, and Kyle immediatly teleported into battle, Keith received no actual medical attention. When we return home, we should notice a very bled-to-death keith

I would presume that it can be jammed, plus it takes two turns to teleport. Except @Sanure decided to use GM's authority to negate that limitation for the fight, presumably so that Keith had a sporting chance or something.

Don't change anything. If you don't like the game then leave it and make your own.

kj, you're in the minority. Why should we be held back by one person who doesn't want anything to change?

Point. McDreich left after this was revived, and I've practically exited as well.

Well, for one thing I don't think the general public would like the people that have been keeping the safer than their governments have being targeted. I mean, we did save the world, IRIS publicaly came out to fight the Order, and most magic criminals are being fought be magic vigilantes. I'd think there'd be riots in the street if people tried that.

You didn't save the world single-handedly.
IRIS contributed. So what? They're a supernatural organization, but so is the Order. No need for the guards if what they guard people form get removed.
Vigilantism isn't exactly legal, it is prone to the caprices of myopia, emotion and various other factors, furthermore there is still the matter of what methods are used. If it's too heavy handed, it can't be tolerated, if whatever arrests they make are not legally recognized, then there may not even be grounds to detain a criminal. Also, the obsoletion of guards upon the removal of threats pops up again.

I've already established this anyway. Also, I'm going to go on the side of government generally supports magical girl activities specifically if registered. But, prejudice wouldn't be as much as has been said.

Well, the GM has spoken.

but that's so unsatisfying. It's not us facng the overwhelming odds, it's the villains who have to face overwhelming odds. What are we playing, a tower defence game, where enemies in greater and greater numbers and stats keep spawning until one makes it through, while IRIS gives us unlimited money for towers?

What, so squishy humans are supposed to beat Void monsters with money now?

*cough*Wall Street*cough*
How about this? Handle plots, lore, effects, etc from their cause and not trace from effects and do so with limitations in mind?

First, get a reason for why the eldritch/infernal/divine entities that everyone and their fucking pet dogs seem to be homies with can't just dues ex machina.

Next, ground the setting in causality. If Kyle or ICARUS or HILDA want to use or make some sort of technological or magical-technological implement, don't do just let them with a roll or something. Get them to explain precisely how it works. Consult @GWG for the science involved, consult relevant lore-holders for the magic involved. If it's possible but the means isn't known, do not allow it. What precisely did Jung have to do with the actual supernatural personae? For that matter, what about Freud, who was rather close to Jung and whose theory had some points of similarities?

Figure out how these organizations run. Yes, IRIS and Yuri's family are global conspiracies. WHAT THE FUCK FUNDS THEM? WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR SHIT? HOW DO THEY HAVE POWER? Answer those and they'll balance themselves, because flaws, weak points, capricious dependencies and the like will emerge, revealing issues with supply, or control, and provide limits to them. Trace them down to their very roots and you'll get a list of what can send them grinding to a halt.

FIGURE OUT HOW MAGIC WORKS! As in the mechanics that govern the applications of abilities. That helps sort out the difficulty of rolls, resistances and whatnot. How precisely do Abraxas, Ashley, Alucard and Bartaemus actually use void attacks? Are they similar? What underlying phenomena do they exploit to manifest the antithesis of Creation INSIDE Creation? Because Baratemus can inconsequently lash people with void and not do much whilst Abraxas seems to have a spectrum of void attacks that vary and Ashley can apparently obliterate things whole with it. I doubt those arise from the exact same phenomena. Get these down to the finest of axioms, not lofty presumptions that can go either way. What is each type of magic? Functional? Semantic?

Review non-original content. This has an awfully large quantity of stuff from other sources made by other people for other settings. Do they fit? If their mechanics don't work, then figure out what alternate in-universe mechanics could let them and what new limitations are consequently formed.

[Akroma]

well, as far as IRIS goes, if we go on playing, rather than suddenly putting everyone in the matrix, I do have the outlines for a political plot ready. There is no need to timeskip into an anti-magic distopia, as it would be much more interesting to actually see the changes happening, try to influence the whole thing etc. IRIS and the PCs have given the world politicians enough reason to want to take action, as well as ammunition to further their cause.


A political plot might be a nice change of pace. Enough with the plots that get fixed via fights. A plot where none of our combat power is relevant, heck where using our powers might even be detrimetal depending on how we use them...might be worth it. What matters is that not every point the opposition raises is handwaved by "well, IRIS is just too powerful, nobody wants to ever fuck with them". Mostly because that is all the more reason why people would be easily rallied against IRIS.

[Empiricist]

I think a more important issue is that IRIS was defined as a CONSPIRACY. Making itself public is going to cause issues for sure, after all, if it is a conspiracy and has as much power, resources and whatnot, then I doubt much of it was obtained legally.

[Kansa]

Honestly if the problem is that bad that we need to do a total retcon and just say we were in the matrix the whole time, we might as well start up an entirely new game.

[Empiricist]

Yeah, it doesn't explain much of what happened at all. For better or for worse, there is this abhorrent mass. Now it is a matter of making it something workable rather than just a mass of pseudo-crossovers god-moding, arguable mary sues and the like.

[Akroma]

as I said, not everything needs to be solved via huge retcons like the matrix or a whole new thread. Certain problems can be adressed through the means of plot. The moment we stop handwaving stuff "everybody loves IRIS so ignoring all international laws is really no problem", stuff may even get interesting.

[Empiricist]

How 'bout this? Get an external auditor. Someone with no connection to this at all but knows how the hell to fix or run run something like this. Get them to have a look. Get them to make recommendations, no matter how harsh and see what an observer has to say about it. SIngle out individual players or characters if required, just get a ruthless examination and figure out a possible rectification.

[Xantalos]

Hmm. I would recommend Ross Vernal, being the only other former I know of who managed a 4000+ page monstrosity (his went somewhere around 6000 pages) but he's kinda busy.

[Kansa]

That sounds like a good idea Emp, the only problem is finding someone who would actually want to take on that role. I don't think too many people will be keen on taking on such a massive project with no actual stake in the game itself

[Empiricist]

Which is more or less the issue. A summary could work, though really, the only person here I would actually trust with that would be @Xantalos simply because the only stakes he has in this consists of the desire to watch it burn to ashes as opposed to having actual interests inside the game. The next most suitable would be @Elf as the GM.

[Xantalos]

But then I'd have to read it and remember which characters are which so I can sort out all the various hugging and snorting of drugs and skin.

[Empiricist]

No need to. Fuck the characters. Fuck their lives, their relationships, everything. What really matters is what abilities are there, what skills people have (along with how feasible it really is), the vague outlines of the random lore and what groups/entities are in play. The issue at hand is not the writing of varyingly dubious quality, but rather what is breaking balance.

[Xantalos]

OH, so I'd only have to read through the last 450 or so pages and all the character sheets to see how various characters perform in battle. I might have a go at it.
In a few weeks, but I could try.