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[Leafsnail]

Oppose extension.

I also forgot. LS: To expound on that lore on your 2x vote, how did TWS affect you for you to have that--his music?

His song was so beautiful that it seemed almost magic, and it allowed me to start moving my feet like a normal young lady again.  This is as opposed to having to limp around dragging big metal shoes all the time.

Those examples I'm saying? It feels like you're somehow changing facts to forward your arguments? Like, how you present Lenglon @D2 instead of D1 claim, and where she directly claims and has add-on effects like confirming Toaster gave a rose? I can understand memory mistakes, but doing it twice in a row is intriguing, to say the least.

The first was a minor mistake that did not affect the rest of my argument (if I actually thought Lenglon claimed D1 I would've said that the mafia had a chance to kill him night one).  The second was not what I said: I said that Lenglon saw Toaster targeting you, and that is enough to prove he did not kill Jim.

Also can you restate/summarize your fullclaim? This is a serious question given that your style of claiming matches Okami-Web's. Pieces and bits at a time with no structured baseline to follow. Meaning: You claimed as time progressed back then.

I claimed my double-vote when I had to, and then the rest of my flavour during the flavour massclaim.  I guess I'll bring it all together once more.

I wear black shoes.

A long time ago I was cursed to wear shoes made of iron.  As well as being painful, this also forced me to drag my feet around like an old woman all the time, and made it essentially impossible for me to find a lover.  I came to the castle in the hope of marrying the Prince, but when I got here I heard the beautiful music that allowed me to walk like a normal person, and dance with the Prince.

(My flavour stated nothing about a musician or what would happen if the music stopped, but "There is a musician playing the music, and if they stop playing I'll lose my confidence and thus my power" is not a hard inference to make.)

This gave me a lot of confidence that lets me double-vote etc.  When the music stopped (due to TWS dying) my feet felt heavy again, and I became very depressed.  Thus, I am now so uncharismatic that my vote counts negative.

How nonsense was her claim, that now the situation requires explanation on something that happened instead of denouncing its entirety?

In the bolded part, how did you know it would make both of your roles weaker when, seeing Web-Okami's role, it doesn't even state anything in it. The weaker in her version was the loss of a bonus-kill, but she still has the option of the faction NK.
tl;dr: There was nothing that stated a loss of power with the absence of the musician. Moreover, it seemed more like a boon if the musician died instead.

Maybe?  Except that webadict's powers relied on his permadancing, which would go away if the musician died.  Also, my role PM made it extremely obvious that I would lose my power if TWS died.  Thus, me and webadict would be knowingly throwing away an extra vote by killing TWS.

Is your role name Black Shoes or something?

I wear black shoes.  See: webadict's role PM.

[Leafsnail]

Leaf, I'm having trouble keeping track of your arguments for why I'm scum because of how you're presenting them. could you please summarize the key points for me?

Okay.

1. The puzzle
We know that there is a puzzle in this game, and that solving this puzzle means that the identities of the mafia members will be revealed.  There is a clear and thematically appropriate pattern that points to you as the final mafia member.  I have not heard any other suggestions for what the puzzle could be, or how any other hypothetical scumteam could fit a pattern.

2. The claim
Your role has nothing to do with your flavour, and indeed the flavour of your role as a whole is extremely sparse.  Every other player has flipped with or claimed a role whose flavour relates to their actions in some way.  Are we to believe that Vector dropped the ball on your role, and your role alone?  As a further supplementary point to this, consider Toaster's claim.  Your roles are clearly linked, but it doesn't feel like the roles have remotely linked flavour. Compare that to the thematic similarities and opposites we see in Black Swan/White Swan or Red Shoes/Black Shoes.

3. The daygame
I haven't really been emphasizing this enough, but your play has been extremely passive.  You only voted twice in the whole of day three, for instance, and you ended up with no suspects and no vote.  There are other problems too, like you clearing Tiruin of suspicion for no reason then hastily throwing out a bunch of reasoning you'd never articulated before when pressed on it.

4. The bus
I've explained several times why I think bussing explains webadict's behaviour yesterday best.  Ultimately this point is mainly here to show you can be mafia though.

5. Night Four
Your claim night four is strange.  Firstly, the mechanics of your role seem to be different, and no explanation is given for why.  Secondly, you didn't claim your actual result in your first post, even though you could have done so.

It's also sortof unclear why you targeted Toaster and not me.

6. Process of Elimination
You yourself confirm Toaster's alibi.  We all seem to agree that Tiruin probably isn't mafia.  So that just leaves me and you.  A me/webadict team has a number of problems, including:
- Why not block Lenglon night two, or kill her night three?  Just where did webadict's night two block go, anyway?  If I was his partner then I could've made the kill.
- Would Vector really give the mafia an additional kill and a hidden double-vote?  Giving them both would mean they could win from mylo, meaning the town could easily be denied a chance to massclaim.
- Why kill someone who we had established would cause me to lose my additional vote, even though a double-vote is a very powerful tool in the hands of mafia members?  It would also cause us to lose our additional kill, but I guess webadict's role PM isn't as obvious about that.

[Tiruin]

@Tiruin:

Yeah I was mainly getting frustrated because I felt like I'd explained the webadict bus thing a lot of times, and because you don't seem to be grasping the reason why Toaster is almost certainly not the killer from last night.  Fair enough if you're just being thorough though.

For the record, you could've done this earlier..it's by far the most convincing thing I've seen, barring speculation.
^{And that you got mad like its restating but that thing wasn't restating insofar as that it wasn't stated before >.>}

Incidentally, I've thought of some fairly compelling meta-reasoning: as a moderator, I would never put both webadict's role and a hidden doublevoter on the same mafia team.  That's simply because they could jump out of nowhere and snatch a victory from a situation that should have been mylo.

This thing too..The thought was stuck in my head for the past night including all the anything which could differentiate a double voter from the rest in this context. But you arguing the meta 'double voters are mostly always town' really didn't do good back there, as a note.

...I'm still bewildered that the depression carries on for the universal voting.

I...really think its all on Leafsnail here. You could've also lolhammered early in today on my 'mistake', to add to that paragraph right there on what I asked you.

Lenglon could not have hammered.

51%.
...This is where I confused myself that the -1 also pertained to..well, universally >.> My mistake. Though the reasoning stands that it has been..too easy. Like scum have gone into paranoia that they set up their own doom by trying to predict too much-if Lenglon is scum

@Lenglon:
I'm hanging on a thread here. If you're town, then fight with your darndest. Yes the implications of you tracking x, y or z carried out earlier as something very believable (only person that can confirm people--Toaster is only confirmed due to him knowing where I..slept. And I believe we can only settle the dirt thing post-game given how decisive he is on those roses. I cannot find any other way to figure it out otherwise). If you doubt the double voter (which..is quite proven given the tie in the previous days)

All votes must be in red and bold for legibility. Unvoting before voting again is not required, but appreciated. You may vote for No Lynch. You cannot conditional vote. In case of a tie, no one will be lynched. The game has soft hammers; if at any point a player has 51% of all available votes, that player will be lynched and the day will end.

as seen here, and partly followed up because of..that very very weird universal vote malus.

I'd love to know why you did what you did though. And if you're scum..take it as a learning lesson, perhaps? Unsure why I'm stating this--must be the fatigue.

...Or the last scum is Toaster and he somehow knew where I slept (given that there is no implication of a rose, but I was willing to believe Lenglon's gravedirt theory...given how Ottofar got it, perhaps? The connections are strange in that Jim was town then, but bleh. I'd really love to know who killed the Black Swan.)
this had the note of a lacking rose given how those things are issued. Your claim matches with it though. [I find it funny that both you and Lenglon say 'eating dirt' like it was casual.]
Which is all very silly. And a flower has personal accessories somehow, like a glass bead and all those other things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Toaster
- A dead butterfly
- A bit of wool
- Grass clippings
- A spool of thread
- A wooden spoon from the Great Hall
- Scraps of cloth
- A glass bead--all these are piled together by the bed in a uniform heap

Vector:  Princess Toaster examines the gathered princesses.  Is anyone- Princess Tiruin especially, wearing flowers?  Any roses in particular?

Along the hem of each black funeral dress is embroidered a string of roses.

The night information you get is the night information you get.  I will not confirm or deny night actions in-thread.

This sets off alarm bells for some reason along with Toaster completely going off into planting rather than giving flowers and economics.

The note that if Lenglon is innocent, and that she did state explicitly that she traced Toaster to me

...
Vector:
Under what action-tag is an arsonist-ish's role kill under? The ability to tag and kill for later on? The tagging goes under...?

Yeah, wacky idea, but differentiating a role that can act--Griffionday--from a role who cannot act, which is me, then something's up with Toaster, or he really doesn't know what a rose is.

How is this not an answer?  There's no dirt involved- I give people a rose, plain and simple.  How am I supposed to expand on that when there's nothing to expand on?

Because the more people wear roses, the more they're planted, and that's a good thing.

...You can't plant a dead flower. >_>
The good thing is if they pollinate. Which requires being alive.
I-
How did you logic this one?
Edit: Woo, typo..
How does this make sense? I am not wearing a rose. Can you examine my body to check for roses?

Supply and demand.  If there are lots of people wanting to wear roses, you have to plant more to grow more.  This is good for plants.

...But none of us have an inclination to even wear a rose or receive a rose. I got completely nothing on getting a rose. I don't know how demand rises for roses when you're just giving it for free, every night, which somehow incites or stirs up our inner lustyness because we see a rose.

I could glance around and admire the clothing, but given that I did admire LS clothing before and that we now know that it has roses..I got nothing.

Your role is confusing and you are a rose. You say that you like roses being picked-nobody ever picked em.
...And I'd really love to see how you view giving others roses in that way.



And for posterity, I'm sigging this for the hidden snark.

Hey, remember how the Prince fed you red herring? Maybe he'll feed you some more, since you like the taste of it so much.

PPE: Leafysnail

1. The puzzle
We know that there is a puzzle in this game, and that solving this puzzle means that the identities of the mafia members will be revealed.  There is a clear and thematically appropriate pattern that points to you as the final mafia member.  I have not heard any other suggestions for what the puzzle could be, or how any other hypothetical scumteam could fit a pattern.

Beautiful puzzle though. I was watching the thread like a hawk, but the puzzle lies in the essence of how everything was presented. That was a nice twist.

5. Night Four
Your claim night four is strange.  Firstly, the mechanics of your role seem to be different, and no explanation is given for why.  Secondly, you didn't claim your actual result in your first post, even though you could have done so.

It's also sortof unclear why you targeted Toaster and not me.

She targeted Toaster because Jim said so. And on that note, if she did anything like such, she may have targeted Jim instead.
..Or you targeted Jim. The anonymity of a double voter carries great weight, but the facts beforehand prove it stable whence I saw it.

4. The bus
I've explained several times why I think bussing explains webadict's behaviour yesterday best.  Ultimately this point is mainly here to show you can be mafia though.

...It doesn't thoroughly explain Web's behaviour though. A bus, to be truly convincing, needs to have both actors stage a fight.

...Web just...

The last sentence could also apply to you though, if we disregard the voting pattern yesterday, and all other proof on the voting (I really doubt Vector would make a role only have a negative value apply to extensions or shortenings.)

Hey on that note!

VOTE COUNT

Leafsnail - Leafsnail, Lenglon
Toaster - Tiruin
Lenglon - Toaster
Tiruin

Not voting: none

Day end is currently scheduled for Thursday at 7:00 PM (-8GMT).  One vote heard for extension to Monday at 7:00 PM (-8GMT).  One more vote required to extend to Monday at 7:00 PM (-8GMT).

This is the final extension available.  Make your time count.

Let's prove it twicemore.

Someone else extend then ask Vector for an extend count. If what Leafsnail says is true, then his opposition is worthless.

Unvote, Lenglon

[Toaster]

Or, alternately, his oppose is actually an extend, and that's enough to extend.

[Tiruin]

Or, alternately, his oppose is actually an extend, and that's enough to extend.

Impossible. The last time, it need-
..Huh, that's plausible. You extended, he 'extended', I extended. We needed 3 to extend.

But why would anyone lie about a trivial thing like that?

[Toaster]

What lie?  His extend being negative has been demonstrated, and he's plainly put out an oppose extend vote.  He didn't put a verbal opinion either way on whether he wanted it to actually extend or not.

[Tiruin]

Well if he put an oppose extend vote, it only acts that its his inclination and not actually an extend vote.
The lie being that..well, I see it that if what you say is true, it should be some sort of an opposite effect.
...and he did say it was universal.

[Leafsnail]

I'm not entirely sure if opposing an extension counts as an extension vote, but it would make sense for it to.

[Vector]

Extension granted until Monday 7:00 PM (-8GMT).  No further extensions on Day 5 available.

Flavor post coming up in a bit.

[Tiruin]

Extend[...]

Oppose extension.

Extension granted until Monday 7:00 PM (-8GMT).  No further extensions on Day 5 available.

I don't even.
OK. [Typo earlier, that was 2 to extend]

Or, alternately, his oppose is actually an extend, and that's enough to extend.

...
That is one really weird role.
Details on your depression, Leafsnail?
One does not just get melancholic poetry when one is depressed.

So we have
Leafsnail who wears Black shoes
Lenglon the Lily
Toaster the Rose
And me who shall not be named.

..Err, k?
Lenglon: Busy busy?

Toaster: Any idea on why nobody has a notice of a rose? I didn't get anything on me receiving a rose.

[Vector]

...Can I also examine that mask I got? Or remember on how it was if I don't have it?

The old flavor is linked in the OP.

Vector:
Under what action-tag is an arsonist-ish's role kill under? The ability to tag and kill for later on? The tagging goes under...?

I've got no idea what you mean by this.

Why is it that he looks so different..now?
...
Did Semele have an effect here?

"S-" It would be rude to repeat. "Someone you knew?"

Ask.

It isn't that Horatio's bones have changed, but that when he shuts himself up tight you feel that you have seen his essential self; that to know Horatio is not to know whatever emotion trickles out in strange jets, as from a broken pipe under pressure, but his chitinous, well-battened exterior.  For it is at his most neutral, his most seemingly uncaring, that you can detect the tumultuous froth of his sentiment taking form.  There he walls himself in foot-thick indifference, and admits his vulnerability with the steel in his gray eyes.  You drink in everything, piece by piece, searching for the coldest.

Hence when you say: "Se-Someone you knew?" and Horatio says nothing, it is not his wiping the palms of his faintly shaking hands on his trousers again that interests you, but the calm resoluteness with which he replies:

"No matter."

And departs, slowly, rolling his shirtsleeves to the elbow and taking his time.


It is near sunset and growing cold when you see him again.  You and the other girls have lit a fire with some difficulty and are shivering around it when he returns, freshly shaven and holding a clay jar.

"Come with me," he says, and leaves before you can say anything.  Of course you follow.  You go wherever there's anything interesting to be seen, or secrets left buried.

"Where are we going?" you ask.

"To repair a mistake."


"Wait here, don't move, and don't say a word," Horatio tells you at the guardhouse door.  After you nod, he enters.  The guardsmen are gathered around the fireplace, eating the musician's hard bread with beer, chuckling over something.

"Gentlemen!" he says.  "I bid you good evening."

"Oh--it's Semele!" says Alexandersen.  "The lady of the hour."

"Ah, even you know the famed lovers lines: 'My sweet love!  You are as bountiful as the rose at dawn, and embracing you would be to expire like Semele--bursting with dark ripeness and the memory of wine,'" says Horatio.  "You won't mind if I join you, then."

"I insist," says Adolf, and Horatio takes his place by the fire.  The other men give him uneasy looks, part amused, part disturbed.

"Rest easy," says Horatio, smiling at them.  "I shan't tell the Prince anything.  You were japing before I came here.  Go on."

One of the younger guards, who cannot have seen more than seventeen summers, says, sniggering: "Go on and read the next bit, Captain."

Alexandersen extracts a hand-sewn book.  Licking his finger, he flicks through the pages until finding something that makes him smile.

"You'll have to tell us, S'mele," says Alexandersen, "whether what it says here is actually true.  From December of last year.  'It is cold and under this snow all of us are hungry.'"

Someone whistles.

"Oh, is that my journal you have there?" says Horatio.  "Yes, last year was rather chilly.  You have the right of it."

"'Some of us may be hungrier than others.  My bones have not felt any warmth for four months now.  Winter is--' I can't read it.  How many f's is that?  Three?"

"'Penance enough,'" says Horatio over the general laughter.

"'Winter is penance enough,' then.  'The Prince has warm hands.  I wonder what would happen if I asked him to share his heat with me.  I cannot write my im--'"

"I would hazard a guess that it says 'imaginings.'"

"'I cannot write my imaginings here.  I do not have enough words.'"

"That good, huh?" says one of the guards, elbowing him.

"Read on," says Horatio.  "It improves."

"'Fifteenth of December.  A book of poesie in one hand, a scourge in the other.'"

"Is that how you like it?"

"Not especially, though I appreciate your attentiveness."

"'I have copied lines here.  "Would that all fleshly tortures be ended by melting into one purer than I; and all spurts and wracks run into one great river.  Then would each separation bodily rend us, each meeting a sinner's burning loss--of senses."  Ah, Sigfred, what would you say?  Would you say you loved me?  Or would you push me away?  Would you accept me for an evening--a single night by the fire?'"

"Ah yes," says Horatio wistfully.  "That was certainly a very cold winter."

The silence is broken by the youngest guard, who says in a loud whisper: "Can't the fool tell we're making fun of him?"

"You find it amusing only because you are unacquainted with the urge to offer pleasure.  Tell me--in this guardhouse so full of swords and spears, do you truly know nothing of the thrust and heft of warmer weapons?"

He runs a finger about the lid of the jar.

"You are ignorant of all that makes life worth living, friends, if you think unfeeling acceptance could glow beside the burning will to give," Horatio says softly, still toying with the lid.  "I know your painted women are not enough for you.  Strange, for those who sing so loud and lustily of brotherhood to never seek satisfaction in each other."

"What's that you've got there?" says Alexandersen, beady eyes fixed on the jar.

Horatio smiles at him.

"Oil."

In the ensuing shock he plucks the book from Adolf's hands, douses it with the jar's contents, and throws it into the fire.  The pages burn bright, and smolder.

"I hope," says Horatio, "that we have all learned something this evening."

With that he turns on his heel, meets you at the door, closes it firmly behind him.

"Come along," he says.  "Before they regain their senses."


You say nothing for a while, as you walk.  Beside you, Horatio is looking very straight ahead and draws shaky breaths.

"Weren't you scared they would hurt you?" you say at last, for want of anything else.

"With that book in their hands," he says, "I was dead already."

You don't know what to say, for once.

"The Prince will be framed for the girl's heinous and supernatural murder," says Horatio.  "This revelation will be more than enough, when added to all the rest of it, to end his rule and put the people in a froth for his head.  But, at the very least, I can destroy the evidence you exposed."

"I didn't mean--"

"Once all this is over, I recommend that you leave this place and never return.

"Now, if you will excuse me," he says, "I have something else to bury."

[Leafsnail]

I'm just really sad because my feet have to be dragged around again.  Both because it means I can't dance and will struggle to find love again, and because it reminds me of my past lover.  It makes me very outwardly gloomy.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:

Toaster: Any idea on why nobody has a notice of a rose? I didn't get anything on me receiving a rose.

Probably because

The night information you get is the night information you get.  I will not confirm or deny night actions in-thread.

Can you see why self-confirming night actions might be a bit game-breaking?

Lenglon: Busy busy?

Defeated, I'd wager.

[Tiruin]

Lenglon: Busy busy?

Defeated, I'd wager.

...So why aren't you guys doing anything on the flavor?

[Lenglon]

Lenglon: Busy busy?

Defeated, I'd wager.

you'd lose that wager, I'm legit busy and when I have had opportunity I've been going back and trying to figure out the puzzle myself, so far without success, but I'm still working on it. I don't seem to be able to refuse leafsnail without have an alternate answer, even though I still think his "solution" isn't viable.