Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Guardian G.I.]

RT: Germany summons US ambassador over 'Cold War' spying leaks

[XXSockXX]

Clearly the US wants to be an enemy with everyone.

Take care not to forget that everyone's doing it, and last i checked international relations aren't that bad. I haven't seen anything beyond lip service from Europe either.

Not everyone is doing it. The US are and the UK is, the UK maybe even to a worse extent than the US.
Sure, everybody has spies, but this extent of surveillance is unprecedented. And what makes it really bad is that they are spying on allies and fellow EU members. I'm sure Russia and China would do it if they could, but at this point we don't know what they are capable of.

It's true that there isn't that much of a reaction from the EU or individual EU countries so far. But there will have to be consequences. The EU is reconsidering the planned free trade agreement with the US. There is a lot of talk about it here, but it looks like politicians are not really sure what they are dealing with and how to react. Nobody wants to really piss off the US, and probably nobody can either, since the US doesn't care too much about relatively powerless allies. The involvement of the UK hasn't made the thing any easier, so a unified EU response seems unlikely.

[Scoops Novel]

Clearly the US wants to be an enemy with everyone.

Take care not to forget that everyone's doing it, and last i checked international relations aren't that bad. I haven't seen anything beyond lip service from Europe either.

Not everyone is doing it. The US are and the UK is, the UK maybe even to a worse extent than the US.
Sure, everybody has spies, but this extent of surveillance is unprecedented. And what makes it really bad is that they are spying on allies and fellow EU members. I'm sure Russia and China would do it if they could, but at this point we don't know what they are capable of.

It's true that there isn't that much of a reaction from the EU or individual EU countries so far. But there will have to be consequences. The EU is reconsidering the planned free trade agreement with the US. There is a lot of talk about it here, but it looks like politicians are not really sure what they are dealing with and how to react. Nobody wants to really piss off the US, and probably nobody can either, since the US doesn't care too much about relatively powerless allies. The involvement of the UK hasn't made the thing any easier, so a unified EU response seems unlikely.

I doubt that the EU members aren't doing the best they can back at them, and similarly, everyone spy's on their allies. As for Russia, and China especially, given the recent talks on mutual hacking of businesses (which China had the upper hand on), i don't see why they wouldn't have similar programs. I'm uncertain as to how much help we had with creating the infrastructure for GCHQ, but either way, the US is certainly worse on that front, and if the UK could manage it, i don't see why the rest of Europe couldn't.

[Sir Finkus]

Well, it looks like he's seeking asylum in Russia now.  Putin says he's welcome as long as he stops ""inflicting damage on our American partners".

Another diplomatic cable leak right now would be interesting to say the least. 

Meanwhile, the American media seems to have settled in on their talking points, and seems to be just repeating whatever the government says.  Snowden seems to be going about leaking this stuff correctly.  Instead of dumping everything like Manning/Wikileaks, the trickle of information seems to be working a lot better.  If he releases something every week, at least it will be in the news for a while.  It also gives all the politicians time to lie a lot and get called out on it.

[Loud Whispers]

Meanwhile, the American media seems to have settled in on their talking points, and seems to be just repeating whatever the government says.  Snowden seems to be going about leaking this stuff correctly.  Instead of dumping everything like Manning/Wikileaks, the trickle of information seems to be working a lot better.  If he releases something every week, at least it will be in the news for a while.  It also gives all the politicians time to lie a lot and get called out on it.

The 20 cent shills keep regurgitating that he is a 'spy' and a 'terrorist to America.' Couldn't get more cold war than that.

[Guardian G.I.]

Unconfirmed reports indicate that Edward Snowden has applied for political asylum in Russia.

[SalmonGod]

Instead of dumping everything like Manning/Wikileaks, the trickle of information seems to be working a lot better.

Why the hell does everybody believe that Manning/Wikileaks "just dumped everything".  They did the same thing as Snowden, just with a larger volume of information.  Wikileaks partnered with a bunch of other journalist organizations going through stuff, redacting names, and writing journalist articles from all the information.  This process went on for several months, until somebody managed to break into the file that contained everything, negating all their efforts at handling things carefully.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I just remember stuff about various military operations in the middle east from wiki leaks not that much big brother is watch like Snowden.

[SalmonGod]

I just remember stuff about various military operations in the middle east from wiki leaks not that much big brother is watch like Snowden.

Manning's most important leaks were the war logs, which everyone seems to forget in favor of the diplomatic cables.  They contained tons of information about war crimes and how stuff the public had been told about the war was blatant lies.

[stabbymcstabstab]

Yep now I remember but still the got him and every one involved unlike snowden who's going to be drinking vodka with the GRU soon, except if suddenly he went to the bathroom and never came back.

[MonkeyHead]

Also, is the information that Snowdon is releasing all that much of a secret? I mean, this sort of thing has been public knowledge in the UK for years.

[SalmonGod]

Also, is the information that Snowdon is releasing all that much of a secret? I mean, this sort of thing has been public knowledge in the UK for years.

Sort of.  People who have been paying attention to the issue understood that this stuff was going on for a long time.  There has been a lot of evidence, unofficial comments from government employees, etc over the years.  Unfortunately, all that information was of a sort that most people could choose not to believe it.  Anyone who wasn't naturally critical and vigilant towards authority would call you a conspiracy theorist if you talked about surveillance on the level that Snowden has revealed.  What these leaks have accomplished is bringing the issue into mainstream media and making it completely undeniable.  Now everyone knows and accepts that it's happening, and is forced to develop their own honest opinion.

[Scoops Novel]

Also, is the information that Snowdon is releasing all that much of a secret? I mean, this sort of thing has been public knowledge in the UK for years.

Sort of.  People who have been paying attention to the issue understood that this stuff was going on for a long time.  There has been a lot of evidence, unofficial comments from government employees, etc over the years.  Unfortunately, all that information was of a sort that most people could choose not to believe it.  Anyone who wasn't naturally critical and vigilant towards authority would call you a conspiracy theorist if you talked about surveillance on the level that Snowden has revealed.  What these leaks have accomplished is bringing the issue into mainstream media and making it completely undeniable.  Now everyone knows and accepts that it's happening, and is forced to develop their own honest opinion.

I wonder what utility this has, if you think this is all a bit convenient. Vagueness HURRAH

[Scoops Novel]

Also, is the information that Snowdon is releasing all that much of a secret? I mean, this sort of thing has been public knowledge in the UK for years.

Sort of.  People who have been paying attention to the issue understood that this stuff was going on for a long time.  There has been a lot of evidence, unofficial comments from government employees, etc over the years.

I didn't keep up with the news, I just assumed that basically every government with the funds to spied on as many nations and people that they viewed as a 'risk' (Occupy, etc.) as possible.

And, whenever a company, government or something has no comment on something serious that could be bad for them, I assume it's true.

Do all your friends? On balance, probably enough, at that.

[da_nang]

Snowden is seeking asylum in Finland.