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Author Topic: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Game Over!  (Read 64970 times)

Tiruin

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #405 on: July 13, 2013, 08:32:13 am »

fair enough, and I value all the input I can get. I really don't like the way everyone has stopped talking, it's making this even harder than I expected
at least when people were railing at me I could get some idea of how they thought, this total silence... well, it sucks.

Have no fear! It is merely the weekend. Slowdowns are to be expected.
This little birdy told me one thing.

And another.

And another...

Until I had to decide.



reviewing the post Tiruin got angry at me in...
Yeah, I deserved that.
No you didn't. You deserved berating on the context, but not as a straightforward point--that I'm really sorry about..and I really appreciate the apologies in return :/

Still, I'm still getting something's off in the last team.

And by that team I don't mean
Quote
Lenglon
GriffPup
Tiruin
Sheep - Scum. :I
But
Quote
Lenglon
GriffPup
Tiruin
Nerjin
I'll explain my views on the matter, but there are details I'm not picking up-that I'm at least sure of. Currently, with the skim, I'm wondering why Lenglon would put that much effort--its flailing, in a superficial view, but she also has pertinent points on the rest.

Something I'm aiming to match. (Lenglon, how do you view TWS? His playstyle, and his attacking pattern?) I saw the initial parts as him doing what he did back in [Magic Mafia]..assuming a facade of aggression that can be pointed and prodded by a counter-feint.

Pertaining to me prodding his point on my 'slip'.
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Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #406 on: July 13, 2013, 08:56:41 am »

I view him as new and flailing. he feels a compulsion to constantly be pressuring exactly two points at any given time, and will grab weak ones if he can't find good ones. I don't see him pushing an agenda. I don't see him trying to manipulate others. I just see flawed scumhunting, which is to be expected out of someone new.

this is all off the top of my head, I'm about to get back too my re-read.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Nerjin

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #407 on: July 13, 2013, 09:09:57 am »

Lenglon - No. But you won't allow that will ya scum?
GriffPup - Despite being on the failed mission I'm thinking town for Pup.
Tiruin - Acceptable. Seems town enough to me.
Sheep - See below

Absolutely not. This team is UNACCEPTABLE! Not only are you on it [which basically guarantees failure] but sheep is on it as well. Take sheep off and replace him with anyone else. I'd also prefer you be off of it BUT you have stated your refusal to do such. Sheeps lurkiness [refusal to make waves] after his super-aggressiveness towards Dariush and Tiruin [trying to find evidence against them for no more reason than Not wanting to be on a team and making a mistake respectively] cement the fact that he is scum to me.

Nerjin/Day makes sense, but Dariush/Shinigami doesn't.
Dariush/Sheep makes sense, so does Nerjin/sheep?
Dariush/Tiruin... yeah, that's freaking undetectable.
Nerjin/Tiruin... same problem.

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?

You put all that work into the read but don't point out why those team-ups make sense. You CAN'T do that kiddo. If you're going to push a conclusion [or five!] you need to provide the relevant evidence.

fair enough, and I value all the input I can get. I really don't like the way everyone has stopped talking, it's making this even harder than I expected
at least when people were railing at me I could get some idea of how they thought, this total silence... well, it sucks.

Yeah the weekend slow-down does suck.

I view him as new and flailing. he feels a compulsion to constantly be pressuring exactly two points at any given time, and will grab weak ones if he can't find good ones. I don't see him pushing an agenda. I don't see him trying to manipulate others. I just see flawed scumhunting, which is to be expected out of someone new.

this is all off the top of my head, I'm about to get back too my re-read.

Except for when he was pushing that Tiruin was spy for forgetting something and that Dariush was scum for not wanting to be sent on a mission. Plus the fact that he's been lurking pretty hard since before you became the furor if I recall correctly.
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Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #408 on: July 13, 2013, 09:26:34 am »

if by "lurking hard' you mean, "hasn't posted a single bloody thing" then yes sheep is lurking.

as for the 5 conclusions, they're based on the following assumptions:
there is one scum from the following: Nerjin, Dariush
there is one scum from the following: Sheep, Tiruin, Day
then I listed all six possible combinations and was just marking off which ones I viewed as not plausible. default state for a pairing is plausible. the only one I saw as not was Dariush/Shinigami (aka day), due to Shinigami attempting to push Dariush onto a team with NQT. the rest I don't have strong enough evidence against them to mark them off yet.

both you and Tiruin have strong scum reads of sheep apparently, Nerjin: is it reasonable to assume you are advocating a NQT/Dariush/Sheep scumteam? as your alternate to NQT/Me/Sheep of course, since you've made your position on that quite clear.
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TheWetSheep

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #409 on: July 13, 2013, 09:41:21 am »

Yeah, sorry for my absence. It's a lot to catch up on but I'll start working on a post now.

TheWetSheep

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #410 on: July 13, 2013, 11:05:14 am »

First of all,
Quote
Why isn't Sheep all that scummy compared to what we're all saying about him? What's your PoV?
I see him as scatterbrained, but he never pushed his weak attacks too far. he ended up talking about them quite a bit, but that was because he was attacked for it pretty hard, and he needed to reference them to explain himself.

This, so much. I feel like I say something, a small idea, and many people jump on it, so I defend it, and the conversation keeps going on and on and people start assuming that this is what I'm basing my game off of, since that's what a lot of my posts are devoted to, because people keep pressuring me on something that isn't actually all that important.



Dariush:
TWS:
Also:
Tiruin and TheWetSheep get moderate town points for downvoting the mission.
No they don't. If they're town, they didn't have any way to know there would be a spy on the team any more than the rest of us.
This is some of the stupidest logic I've seen. If we were spies, though, we would want the team passed, since it had at least one spy on it.
Huh, I thought I answered it.

Have you heard about such a thing as 'lie'? As 'deceit'? Have you considered the possibility that scum won't always upvote every team that contains a spy and downvote every team that doesn't? That they would want to look town? I realize that this possibility is extremely miniscule (because which spies don't want to be caught, duh), but I still think that it is worthy of consideration.
Does this mean that no information can be gained from who votes what? I mean, sure, it's not definite, but it doesn't mean it's meaningless.
FFS, stop twisting my words. I didn't say this, because this is stupid. No, spies won't always vote in their favour, but they will generally do so. I see no reason (well, other than that you're scum) why you keep assuming that there are only two radical possibilities - 'spies always vote in their favour' and 'votes are meaningless for alignment reads'.
I asked you "does this mean?", and you say I'm twisting your words? And does my last sentence there look like I'm talking about two radical possibilities? Also, saying you can get information out of it kind of goes against what you say at the top of the pyramid.

(What does FFS stand for?)

Quote
- I don't care about the poll itself. If GD wants it to make a probability sheet, to hell with him. You refused to lock the team in until me and Nerjin answered it.
No I didn't. I wanted to wait until you came out of your lurking spree and answered some of the questions.

Quote
- Look at all the people who have been on the failed team. GP has only been in like one or two non-BMs, NQT is a dumbass, Nerjin... okay, he's moderately good. Do you see any of them panicking about how inexperienced they are and how they can't handle the blame if the mission fails? Do you actually see any way to directly defend against a question 'Why did the team you were on fail?' other than 'one of the other guys did it'? Hint: you don't.
Remuthra actually said "I lack the Mafia skill to defend myself against this situation." But sure, I'll leave this point for now.

Nerjin:
After all, Lenglon my dear, if you ARE town why not allow the town to choose what is essentially their best chance to win?
If she is town then putting herself on it is giving the town a better chance to win.

Dariush to me is a bit too much of a risk factor due to the questionable method of random picking, but if everyone would prefer him to Remuthra I'll put him forward.  We've actually got a serious advantage over the spies in this game: unlike last time where the spies were able to confer beforehand, the spies in this game have no way of communicating to each other. They essentially have no way of ensuring that only one of them fails the mission (if I recall correctly, the spies in the last game agreed for the alphabetically first spy to fail each mission when they doubled up) and we can use this to our advantage if, and this is likely, the spies in future missions panic and double or triple vote.

I don't think that's how it was but it's not really important. The spies are a bit more balanced in this game though I think they might be a little over-balanced [is that a thing?]

ANYWAY my point is this: If you put Dariush along with the team from last time I'll be in favor of it.
This post is suspicious to me. The first part seems like a confirmation that you got the message. You were on the spy team in VLR1, and respond with a vague "I don't think that's how it was". It's also completely unrelated to the second part.

But Sheep for his utter insistence that Dariush is scum
Utter insistence? I was considering putting him on my team!
Quote
and Tiruin is trying to hard to appear town based on a simple slip.
Again, same thing. And why am I scum for trying to find scummy things? I mean, read the part at the top of this post. I was not saying that, because of these things, these people are 100% scum. Why are you assuming I am?

Lenglon:
Sheep: how were your views on Day 2 contradicting?
Because I didn't trust Dariush and his randomly generated team but it succeeded.

NQT:
Look, Lenglon, if I were really a spy don't you think I'd have been more subtle? It's like reminding Griffpup and Griffionday that 'i' comes before 'p'...
Ridiculous. You can't be a spy because your communication was too blatant?



Now, about the matter at hand: the team.

My preferred team is pretty much the same as the one I put forward, but the Nerjin-Tiruin-Dariush spot is a lot more open now. Although Lenglon is seeming more like town now, and she's probably going to be on it no matter what.

Actually, you know what, I don't have solid enough reads on anybody. I've been spending too much time defending myself. I need to do a reread. I'll finish this post now then, I guess, and come back to it a bit later.

Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #411 on: July 13, 2013, 12:55:56 pm »

Spoiler: Day 4 post-team-lock (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Day Results (click to show/hide)

This day was crazy-long. I mean, CRAZY-long. this one day took longer than all three previous ones. It was pretty reasonable up until I showed up, and then EVERYONE starts posting nothing but wall after wall after wall of text. geez.

Key points that struck me:
Sheep was on the defensive almost all day, and needs to work on his communication. There were a lot of unecessarilly vague references in what he was saying, and he needs to learn when something becomes irrelevant. He spent way, waaaaay too long defending the whole "Remuthra wanted Dariush on the team instead of himself, which makes Dariush scum" thing. I still don't see what is so scummy about him though. I saw more noob-tells than scum-tells

Dariush was acting really scummy all day, he was lurking (multi-day lurking so it wasn't timezones), nitpicking answers. and Dariush: you STILL have not told me how GriffPup should have called out NQT on being communicating scum without pointing out where and what NQT said!

Nerjin acted pretty townie. he was clearly questioning people on what and why  for the longest time, still... one sec, I need to go re-check my notes, I thought...
Nevermind, yeah, he acted pretty townie all day.

Griffday: you never did post your wall of reads Nerjin asked for when you replaced in. Do you mind doing that?

NQT cemented himself as scum this day. not only did he get caught, but he then totally failed to defend himself effectively. toss in what turned up when he was focused upon by the entire group (all the little things), and... yeah. he's scum.

Tiruin seemed quite town as well, similar to Nerjin, she was quite active and trying to scumhunt the entire time. She didn't leave questions hanging around, and the questions she did ask were quite effective.

Sheep, when you don't know an acronym, google it. the very first result is the one you want in this case.

NQT: you realize I'm not reading your posts anymore, right?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

TheWetSheep

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #412 on: July 13, 2013, 09:29:05 pm »

Although Lenglon is seeming more like town now, and she's probably going to be on it no matter what.
Realized I should give reasons for this. She just is reacting to this situation in a way I'd expect a rebel to react. If I was a spy in that position I would play it safe and try to get into the town's good books, but Lenglon is throwing caution to the wind.

Another thing I noticed is a possible reason for Remuthra's leaving the game. He was not invested in the game at all, shown by these posts. It looks to me like he just didn't care a lot about the game, and maybe this was his way out.

Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #413 on: July 13, 2013, 10:37:37 pm »

-discussion of if i'm a rebel or a spy-
there really isn't much point to discussing if I'm a rebel or a spy until the day ends. I'd really prefer it if you used your energy on something productive. please?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Nerjin

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #414 on: July 14, 2013, 12:41:12 am »

[[Buddy buddy buddy]]

Throwing caution to the wind is a town play? Stating that voting for a team by everyone on the 'last day'? No. That's not how a townie acts. ESPECIALLY not the power-madness she's gotten.



If you really ARE town, Lenglon, you've got to see how blatantly he's buddying you right now. Every "newb-tell" you've stated seems like a scum-tell to me. Specifically how he tunneled Dariush on something that made no frieken sense.

Take him off the team.

I'm assured you're scum Lenglon. But I have no other choice than to trust you. I REALLY hope for town's sake that I'm wrong about you.
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Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #415 on: July 14, 2013, 01:04:16 am »

I...
ok, I'll trust your judgement on this Tiruin, Nerjin.


Lenglon
Tiruin
GriffPup
Nerjin


Since I posted the Day 4 recap, my day has been a waking nightmare IRL. I can't get a read on anyone right now.

Dariush, Sheep, Day, do you think I'm messing up here? if so, how?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Nerjin

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #416 on: July 14, 2013, 01:07:37 am »

I will accept that team.Barely. You are a MAJOR no to me but... At least if it fails I'll know who did it.
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Griffionday

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #417 on: July 14, 2013, 01:26:42 am »

No to Griffpup, I'd say replace with Daruish.  If you still don't want to, I'd up vote it to give us a fighting chance.
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Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #418 on: July 14, 2013, 01:34:13 am »

No to Griffpup, I'd say replace with Daruish.  If you still don't want to, I'd up vote it to give us a fighting chance.
that's fair but I don't understand why you dislike Pup more than Nerjin. what makes him different? Why do you prefer Dariush instead?
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Lenglon

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Re: Revolution II - The Fires of Rebellion: Week 3, 3rd Day
« Reply #419 on: July 14, 2013, 01:37:10 am »

by the way Day, you realize that what you're saying is that you think the scumteam is NQT, Sheep, and Pup. right?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))
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