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[Gervassen]

There are so many things asploding in Japan

Skimmed through it; some valid complaints some silly ones. Overall rather... dumb? Is the best way to describe that article. Too many absolutes and generalizations.

At least that article is from a person who lived there several decades, as opposed to the experts on B12 who watched a lot of anime. This is why I'm not further involved in this thread. It's given that there will be a rush to protect your narrow world-view. B12 is not known for open-minded discussion. It's a given that a twenty-something man-child is going to tell me I'm wrong because he watched a lot of anime, and Japanese look like Hong Kongers, therefore his knowledge of anime gives him unique insight into the social practices of any vaguely asiatic nation, therefore he speaks with great authority that renders my personal experience over three decades null and void.

But it remains that 80% of the world does consider it odd when people are not married by 28. That puts everything in this uniquely western thread in context. Western culture is the culture with the dysfunctional neuroses.

[Max White]

So basically we are pretending that Bay12 is 4chan?
I don't see anywhere when anybody here claimed to be an expert on Japan due to having watched anime. That is the dumbest strawman to every wander his way into the Emerald City.
Gervassen I think you just have a massive, gaping chip on your shoulder due to a hatred of a specific niche of people and let it jade your view of everything.

[Vector]

But it remains that 80% of the world does consider it odd when people are not married by 28. That puts everything in this uniquely western thread in context. Western culture is the culture with the dysfunctional neuroses.

I'm not really sure why you're so concerned with marriage there, Gervassen.

Is there some reason why you don't want to answer this?

[Flying Dice]

Most likely because it's an absurd generalization, likely backed by (possibly unconscious) beliefs regarding moral behavior.

[Neonivek]

I think I've heard you mention it before in the anime thread.  That may have been when I first became aware of the pattern.  x3

Yeah I ruin anime for a lot of people by making them realize the excessively stupid pattern in "Shonen" anime (and I still swear it sticks outside of Shonen... but I swear if you aren't spreying blood everywhere it seems like you are Shonen) where the female characters are thrown under a bus for male ones.

The only reason I bring it up is because nothing feels worse then liking a character and knowing the only reason they get so much disrespect from the writers is because they are female and are supposed to be vulnerable little ponies who need a strong man to show them the way.

Or playing a game and watching the female characters replaced (or put into stupid time stasis) because "They would be too ugly if they were like thirty!"

[DWC]

I think trying to understand Japanese culture from watching anime is like trying to understand American culture by watching their reality TV shows and cop dramas.

That is to say, you get a really distorted impression and your mind glazes over the gaps with dumb stereotypes.

But yeah, anime I noticed is all remarkably formulaic. All the characters fit pretty narrow archetypes, you basically see the same exact characters in any given anime series. It's prolefeed tier stuff, it's just novel because it's still quite a bit different then western narratives and characters.

I guess to bring the topic back the sexism, I hear on NPR that Japan is one of the most sexist cultures around from the way they are portrayed in pornography that is popular there, compared to less sexist erotica type stuff where the women are 'more empowered' that is popular in Norway or whatever.

[Max White]

Trying to understand Eastern culture from anime is like trying to understand Western culture from anime threads.

[Neonivek]

As far as Japan and sexism, the best way to describe their country is that they are very much in transition.

They still have the hardcore sexism but they also have a lot of progressiveness at the same time often even right next to each other.

The progressiveness of animes is only because of marketing (If you were a woman what anime would you watch? The anime where the woman does nothing, says nothing, and basically is nothing or the one where she kicks to kick butt with all the guys but is still vulnerable and just wants to be hugged?)

This does however lead to REALLY shoe horned in "Female perspective" characters who don't do squat who are only there because it is a way for the female readers to project themselves in the story.

The WORST anime for this I ever seen was Prince of Tennis. How bad was it? Well I taken half a year off from watching it and when I got back to it I forgotten she was even in it... and she is supposed to be a major character and important enough to have quite a few episodes focused on her (that went nowhere). Her character is eternally in limbo and if quite literally could transplant her from the start of the anime (after she met Ryoma) and put her at the end and you lose literally nothing. She is either part of a dropped storyline (which is common, if a character gets their storyline dropped it will be a female's) or she is only there so females will actually read the manga/watch the show.

So in the end she contributes nothing and learns nothing. She could have been replaced with a box with a girl's face drawn on it with a tape recorder inside.

[penguinofhonor]

At least that article is from a person who lived there several decades, as opposed to the experts on B12 who watched a lot of anime. This is why I'm not further involved in this thread. It's given that there will be a rush to protect your narrow world-view. B12 is not known for open-minded discussion. It's a given that a twenty-something man-child is going to tell me I'm wrong because he watched a lot of anime, and Japanese look like Hong Kongers, therefore his knowledge of anime gives him unique insight into the social practices of any vaguely asiatic nation, therefore he speaks with great authority that renders my personal experience over three decades null and void.

But it remains that 80% of the world does consider it odd when people are not married by 28. That puts everything in this uniquely western thread in context. Western culture is the culture with the dysfunctional neuroses.

If you're going to leave the thread, please, just leave. You don't need to be aggressive and burn bridges or whatever before you go so you can feel vindicated.

If you're going to keep posting, "man-child" and other insults need to stop.

[Flying Dice]

Neonivek, just remember that Sturgeon's Revelation applies to anime just as much as to anything else. Lots of series are pulp full of unfortunate stereotypes and mindless [whatever] because that sells and is easier to make than something that's thought-provoking or well-written. It's rather unfortunate, in that it leads to people assuming that because something (for example, female characters needing help in a situation) is a repeated element of one series which actually is using it as part of a negative stereotype, it is being used in exactly the same way in every series.

In other words, a female character can need help in a specific instance without being a weak individual who can't do anything without assistance. Take, for example, Seras Victoria in the opening chapters of Hellsing.

Trying to understand Eastern culture from anime is like trying to understand Western culture from anime threads.

I'd posit that the latter might actually yield more useful information. Regarding fringe culture of a relatively small subset of the general Western population, at least.

[Neonivek]

In other words, a female character can need help in a specific instance without being a weak individual who can't do anything without assistance.

Ohh I wish it was just a sort of back and forth but no.

I am not so petty that I am raging everytime a female character needs help. I am ticked because the female character often ceases to be competent, strong, or willful... because her plotline is thrown away... or she is somehow disposed of for a male character or because she is female.

Are there ways to do a female character who is strong but vulnerable at the same time? Yeah, I'd love to see that too. Yet unfortunately I am stuck with this pile of women who pretend to be strong but are actually vulnerable small ponies... or ones who are "strong" but who are constantly thwarted because otherwise they would have to dish out character development.

Why is the female character's inclusion in Prince of Tennis rather insulting and stupid? Because it is specifically setting up a plotline, constantly referencing it, building up its importance, and even devoting time to it... All for it not to pay off because she is just a woman interfering with a man's story.

Honestly the only female character I can even remember who was strong from the start all the way to the end... was from Trigun... and I only seen a single episode. So for all I know the second she took down that impossible enemy that she defeated using every skill she ever learned... She suddenly fights a teddy bear and cries because she was only pretending to be strong and thus we need the male protagonist who is actually strong.

[Ogdibus]

.

[Vector]

Yeah.  That.

[Neonivek]

Well let me see...

There is always Jem a show where Jem never tells Rio that she is Jem because he might break up with her.

In Cartoons and videogames there is a HUGE overwhelming tendency for the young female character who is the ruler of a kingdom to be called a Princess because it is more marketable and "cuter"

For a while a lot of people who made cartoons believed that girls dislike conflict. Hence why for the longest time female oriented cartoons tended to focus on everyday things rather then any real conflict.

[Flying Dice]

Mm, I'll just say that I've noticed a trend in past discussions of sexism here that bringing up anecdotal examples tends to lead to misunderstandings and unproductive arguments. I'm not saying to not do it, exactly, but to be cautious in doing so.