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[Vector]

Probably fix and repost.

[Griffionday]

Griffinpup:
Out of curiosity; why do you consider admitting to bandwagoning to be a scum tell?  Because it seems to me that it'd be much like admitting to tunneling, they're essentially apologizing for their actions, indicating that they realize they were playing poorly and that they intend to play better in the future.

Not that bandwagoning isn't a scum tell, but you're focusing on the admission of the action as apposed to the thinking behind the action.

[griffinpup]

Shinigami_King- 
these were the questions that you said you'd elaborate on over the weekend.  On thursday, I still find them largely unanswered.

I have in fact pressured her, just very poorly. I will look over the weekend to try to find where, deal?

The Lenglon is scummy topic is something else that I want to take my time with. I want to gather enough info to make a solid read. To do this I want to read through the whole thread and pick out inconsistencies. The major thing is how weak she is playing right now. From meta game I can say that she was a very active and strong player and that isn't showing in this game which is suspicious.

You just flat out haven't addressed the first question, completely ignoring it in all your posts.  This question isn't even in depth.  The answer is a quote of one post.  I find your evasiveness and lack of answering simple questions scummy.

The next topic, 'how Lenglon is scummy'.    You came into this game immediately White-Knighting a player being attacked, Lenglon.  Later you admit that she's scummy, but still rank her as one of the least scummy people in the game.  When questioned on this, the only reasoning you gave on why is that you'd prefer to have her stay in the game so he can continue with her apparently miraculous ability to scumhunt.  This is the excuse you give to not pressure him, as well.  Lenglon doesn't even agree with your assessment of her abilities.  How about instead of keeping scummy people in the clear for an amazing ability that they haven't even demonstrated in this game, you should try to scumhunt yourself.   
This was your response to my questions that you wanted to take the whole weekend for.

What I can say about Lenglon's scummyness is that I am naturally paranoid. I think I might have jumped on the mob mentality as well. After looking over her posts from early game she seems actually less scummy. But as I said before, her scumhunting does seem to be lacking in this game.

Let's analyze your post attempting to answer the questions above.
First of all, we see that you are paranoid.  This statement seems out of place and poorly connected to what you are trying to prove. Then we have the almost open admission to bandwagoning Lenglon, "jumping on the mob mentality."  Note, bandwagoning is the crime here, not admitting to it.  The fact that you pointed it out for me is merely helpful.  Next, you comment on how she somehow seems less scummy now.  This is supposedly because you looked over her posts again.  You never state what exact posts makes her seem less scummy.  You didn't address HOW they made her look less scummy.  This is a very vague answer to a specific question.  You didn't pick out any inconsistencies in her posts, which was the way you stated to try to figure out if Lenglon was scum.

Your posts starting with this one have contained little to no valuable content whatsoever, merely 'fluff' and vague statements about feelings, never supported by proof or facts.  You evade simple questions and don't back up your statements by any type of reasoning or proof.

To everyone else:  Sorry about double post, RL was interfering and I decided to post unedited instead of delaying my post.  Not my best decision in the world. 
Griffy, I think I answered your question in my remade post also, thanks for  pointing it out.
Vector:  I hope this is better formatted.

[Tiruin]

Is the IC replacement spot still open?

*Tiruin looks at Captain Ford.

Leafsnail looks pretty free.

[Vector]

That's much better.  Thank you.

The only thing is that, in the future, if you repost for formatting it helps to have a note in the beginning saying you're doing so, so folks don't get confused.  No worries

[Captain Ford]

Is the IC replacement spot still open?

*Tiruin looks at Captain Ford.

Leafsnail looks pretty free.

Yes it is still open. Please take it.

If I were still intending to actively play I would have voted someone and started a line of questioning, but I didn't feel it was fair to point the finger and then disappear.

[Tiruin]

Vote standings:

• Griffionday(0) -
• Lenglon(0) -
• griffinpup(0) -
• Demdemeh(0) -
• Shinigami_King(2) - Vector, griffinpup
• Vector(0) -
• Leafsnail(1) - Lenglon
• Not Voting(4) - Leafsnail, Demdemeh, Griffionday, Shinigami_King

Leafsnail has replaced Captain Ford

Day 2 has begun and will end at June 4, 2013. [Tuesday] 9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker!


It is cold. Despite the layered clothing most of you wear, the height from ground level isn't helping your condition. The room looks moderately insulated. Winds blows through the many skylights and holes in the walls, as if whispering something unheard.

There is a large, brown spider about a foot in length perched right above your location, upside down. It is fuzzy, and minding its own business.

[Leafsnail]

Hey, everyone.  I should really get back to packing, but first: lynching RangerCado was a really bad move.  There is no point at all in lynching a cop claim day one, and that applies double if the cop may the only town power role and the mafia has no roleblocker.  I'll focus on the stuff surrounding yesterday's lynch briefly:

Ah wait.  I missed seeing the sane cops in the above setups.  Fuck me.

All right, explain.  Why are you claiming?

Vector should know better,  and the way she didn't miss a beat after her initial attack was shown to be wrong was suspicious.

Ranger:

I know you attempt ruses, but seriously: what are you trying to achieve with this claim?

Vector:
I'm satisfied with your answer for now, and don't have anything else I can try and improve my read on you with...

How does one "kick sand"?

This is also really suspicious, particularly if Vector comes up scum.

birdy51's reaction to the event seemed pretty decent, also he was correct about there being no point in lynching the cop.

[Shinigami_King]

That's it. Replacement. I'm way too busy and toon mafia just started. I really wanted to go all the way through this but my gameplay is the sh*ts right now. Sorry.

[griffinpup]

That's it. Replacement. I'm way too busy and toon mafia just started. I really wanted to go all the way through this but my gameplay is the sh*ts right now. Sorry.

Is it wrong if I take this as a victory? ya, I guess it is.  Sorry to see you leaving King.

[griffinpup]

Regardless.  Whoever replaces Shinigami.  What are your current opinions and reads?  What do you think about your predecessors play so far?  Do you agree with his reads, or not?

[Griffionday]

Okay, so Demdemeh has been gone from the forums since before the night, and has yet to return.  I still think he's scum due to how he was managing his case on me; but we probably have an active scum.  Until such time as he returns or we end up with only one remaining scum I'm shelving the case on Demdemeh.

griffinpup:

That's it. Replacement. I'm way too busy and toon mafia just started. I really wanted to go all the way through this but my gameplay is the sh*ts right now. Sorry.

Is it wrong if I take this as a victory? ya, I guess it is.  Sorry to see you leaving King.

Yes it's VERY wrong to see that as a victory.  Pushing someone out of the game is not a victory for town; it doesn't indicate anything about your case other than that it was taken to harshly, and having to get a read on a replacement sets us back over a whole day of discussion with them it cools any leads on them and is in general BAD.  Why would you see this as a victory?  Was it a case that you were making up as you went along and you see his departure as validation that you are capable of faking it?

Then we have the almost open admission to bandwagoning Lenglon, "jumping on the mob mentality."  Note, bandwagoning is the crime here, not admitting to it.  The fact that you pointed it out for me is merely helpful.

-snip-

Griffy, I think I answered your question in my remade post also, thanks for  pointing it out.

My point was that you were not trying to force him to defend his thoughts and his action, rather pressing him on calling himself out on bandwagoning.  The added sentence just confuses your point as you didn't add to the pressure to change it's actual focus to the bandwagoning.  Think about it: in your pressure all he's required to do is say "I already admitted to bandwagoning, it was a mistake and I'm trying to avoid that in the future" and suddenly he's clean.

Note, bandwagoning is the crime here, not admitting to it.  The fact that you pointed it out for me is merely helpful.

It sounds like you're grateful to him for handing you a case on a ready made platter.  Why did you consider the admission of wrong doing to be where you should attack?  Were you dissatisfied by his answer and want him to account for his actions more thoroughly, or were you merely trying to create a lynch case on Shinigami?

[Shinigami_King]

Just poking my head in the door here. While you will have to get a new read on a new player you will also likely be able to find the players alignment by "triangulating" the facts and actions taken.

[griffinpup]

Griffionday:

griffinpup:

That's it. Replacement. I'm way too busy and toon mafia just started. I really wanted to go all the way through this but my gameplay is the sh*ts right now. Sorry.

Is it wrong if I take this as a victory? ya, I guess it is.  Sorry to see you leaving King.

Yes it's VERY wrong to see that as a victory.  Pushing someone out of the game is not a victory for town; it doesn't indicate anything about your case other than that it was taken to harshly, and having to get a read on a replacement sets us back over a whole day of discussion with them it cools any leads on them and is in general BAD.  Why would you see this as a victory?  Was it a case that you were making up as you went along and you see his departure as validation that you are capable of faking it?

First of all, the post you quote is mainly for comic relief.  Only my comic relief, perhaps, but comic relief none the less.  I agree with your points about why Shinigami leaving is bad.  If you notice, my conclusion is, that it is wrong to see it as a victory. Shinigami's replacement request comes out as a net loss in our quest to lynch the scum.  Now onto your questions.
Your first question is easily answered.  One reason too see this as a victory is that a problem, Shinigami's crappy play recently, will most likely be fixed.  A replacement is a great improvement over what Shinigami has been demonstrating over the past few days.  I am confused by your last question though.  Are you implying that my case against Shinigami was fake or made up?  Or that I don't really know how to play and am just blundering along hoping not to make too many mistakes? 

Then we have the almost open admission to bandwagoning Lenglon, "jumping on the mob mentality."  Note, bandwagoning is the crime here, not admitting to it.  The fact that you pointed it out for me is merely helpful.

-snip-

Griffy, I think I answered your question in my remade post also, thanks for  pointing it out.

My point was that you were not trying to force him to defend his thoughts and his action, rather pressing him on calling himself out on bandwagoning.  The added sentence just confuses your point as you didn't add to the pressure to change it's actual focus to the bandwagoning.  Think about it: in your pressure all he's required to do is say "I already admitted to bandwagoning, it was a mistake and I'm trying to avoid that in the future" and suddenly he's clean.

I was illustrating the fact that whether bandwagoning existed or not couldn't be debated.  He admitted to it, and I was pointing it out.  I admit that I did put my answer to you in my article, where I should of kept it separate and purely to you, but the point is moot now anyways.  Shinigami isn't going to feel any more pressure from this ever again, and neither will his replacement.  Also, you don't get off the hook for doing something scummy merely by admitting to it, then say you're trying to improve.  Apologies don't change the fact that something scummy was done.  My plan on continuing pressure was to press this point depending on his answer and yes, force him to explain why he did so.  But again, the point is probably moot.

Note, bandwagoning is the crime here, not admitting to it.  The fact that you pointed it out for me is merely helpful.

It sounds like you're grateful to him for handing you a case on a ready made platter.  Why did you consider the admission of wrong doing to be where you should attack?  Were you dissatisfied by his answer and want him to account for his actions more thoroughly, or were you merely trying to create a lynch case on Shinigami?

I addressed some of this in the prior paragraph.  But one point that you seem to be missing is that my case wasn't built on his bandwagoning Lenglon.  It was built on his vague posts and lack of substance.  I didn't focus my 'attack' on his admission of wrongdoing.  I merely included it in my 'attack' to see what his explanation for bandwagoning would be.  I was obviously dissatisfied with his answer overall, and I asked him to explain it.  I was also building a case against him.  I was also putting pressure on him with my whole post.  I wanted to see how he would react, and I got to.  It might not of been the reaction I was hoping for, but it was still a reaction.

Why would preparing a lynch case on Shinigami be bad?

[Lenglon]

Leafsnail: mind answering the question I asked Ford last week? it's really, really, really simple. What is your opinion of Day?

Dem: you've disappeared again, just like you did on Day 1. why do you keep doing that?

Shinigami: Why not stay in here if you feel like you need to improve your gameplay? This is a BM for a reason after all.

Either IC: How do you suggest reacting to replacements mid-game? is it any different from replacements earlygame or lategame? is it reasonable to react to a replacement with a mini-RVS phase to get a feel for how they play?