Dem: First up, never appreciate someone defending you unless its on stupidly bad grounds. Beret them and question them on why they're doing your job. You did neither of these despite being called out on it several times. Strike 1.
Second, you believe i can't be trusted on a successful find tomorrow because i could just be bussing my partner... How stupid do you believe these players are? The scum IC would have to be insane to even go along with that and why not just go with bussing me if i'm scum? Nows the perfect oppertunity since everyones after me and it'd be rather easy to justify my lynch. Me bussing my scum buddy if i were mafia day 2 wouldn't be good at all because as town, mafia would definately just start trying to kill me. The longer i live from there, the more confirmed Townies i get for town, the worse the last mafias situation would be, and if mafia didn't kill me day 3, i'd probably be lynched then with a final townie confirmed for them. Strike 2.
You have been tunnelling Griffy with a passion. Granted Birdy did this to me, but he knew something was up, just the wrong thing to be looking for. This tunnelling hasn't led anywhere from my position, and even made me think of Griffy as more towny. Where is this leading to? Have you found anything at all? Griffy has pointed out every problem with your postings, even conceded with your points that made sense. He's been completely forth coming and honest from what i can tell. Now i know that this list of accusations means nothing to you as you don't trust me at all, but atleast tell me what you've learned, if anything, about Griffy's alignment. Strike 3 my friend. Unvote. Demdemeh.
Cado: First up, appreciating anyone attempting to defend you shouldn't necessarily be a problem; sometimes, people's attacks are in error, after all. Second of all, I was attacking him the entire time. Poorly, maybe, but you'll note that I've been over that several times already.
Second: you can't be trusted because your roleclaim came at a time when you were under pretty heavy attack for your own suspicious behaviour. The scum IC doesn't have any direct control over you. You can make your own decisions. I'm not saying that you're scum; just that your roleclaim stinks of wine so strongly that no one can trust it. In addition, MAFIA CAN CONFIRM TOWN. The two options for you are: Mafia; Cop. Both are as capable of identifying mafia and confirming town. So you can't be trusted. Sorry. Thinking that the other players would just go along with what you say is the actual assumption of stupidity, here. We only have to wait until the day after you're lynched, or the last scum is found, to know whether you're telling the truth. You can't roleclaim from position of weakness.
Finally: You're right. Gday has conceded that some of my points made sense, and explained the questions regarding my other points. I still have problems with some of the same things, but I'm not sure, yet, what I've learned from our little conversation. Obviously, there's still some suspicion on the other side, since Gday is voting me, now, and I think that that's a bit of an OMGUS at this point (as you so lovingly accused me of, GDay), but I'm still making my mind up what I'm getting from what was said. I'm not ready to alter my vote, yet, although I'm about willing to drop my leeway on you, here,
RangerCado, since you're willing to jump on the closest thing to a bandwagon that's not on you at the drop of a hat.
Demdemeh:
As a personal favor please make it clear what points you are addressing with each sentence. At the very least split your responses into paragraphs based on what point you are responding to.
Alright then; points that I feel need to be addressed:
And I came back from my "hiatus" well before your mistake. Weekends don't count, remember?
Fair; I was wrong to accuse you of having taken 28 hours to answer my post, as with the weekend not being counted count it only took you ten hours; so my apologies there.
[spoiler]Demdemeh:
First off, I appreciate your defending me, Shinigami, but saying yourself that you think I'm slightly scummy and then later telling people they shouldn't vote for me seems a bit too "reverse psychology". Especially considering your earlier defense of Lenglon, who you also outright stated is "scummy". I'd also like to know your responses to griffinpup's inquiries, which have been conveniently requoted here.
How is being defended useful to town and why are you grateful for it? It seems like you're just glad the pressure against you is in part being deflected by Shinigami.
Specifically right here. I particularly appreciate your manufacturing the whole "good for town" angle, but I've already spoken on that.
Your exact words to Shinigami were "I appreciate your defending me, Shinigami." The only reason I can see to "appreciate" some one defending you is if you are scum. Hence the question: I wanted to know if you had another opinion about that that would give you a reason to appreciate him while acting in the interest of town. As you seem to use appreciate less as a form of "gratefulness" and more as a form of "admire", I'm willing to let this one slid.
You should be glad, though. You've got me off Shinigami's back. Isn't that what you wanted?
I think you're accusing me of chainsawing you to protect Shinigami; which is complete rubbish and you know it. My reason for pressing you was based on your presentation of your case and the assumptions you made in making your case against Shinigami and pressing griffinpup.
It would seem that I was saying that, yes. I think it's probably fairer to state that you were following up on griffinpup's points, which I think I answered rather well.
Isn't one of the major points to this game to unite town against a perceived member of the scum team and have him lynched? Should it matter to me that I'm not the one applying pressure to someone I believe is scum? I don't think it should. I think I should be glad to direct pressure where I feel it's due.
This is addressing me calling you out on not applying pressure on Shinigami yourself, and relying on re-posting griffinpup's questions to apply pressure. Note how it does not actually address that; and rather is an excuse for not providing your own case. Let me ask again then: why did you copy griffinpup's questions press Shinigami when your own case was only "why did you defend Lenglon when you claimed he was scummy?"[Link].
Your case btw makes no sense if you paid attention to the chronology of Shinigami's defense of Lenglon, and then calling him scummy. It sounds like you're being opportunistic and looking for places where you can manipulate people's statements and reads to paint them scummy wherever possible.
Shinigami's defense of Lenglon happened pretty early in the game, while I was still adjusting to the basics of this game. If you'd pay attention to the chronology of my own posts, you'd notice that. In addition, there's little difference between "being opportunistic and looking for places where you can manipulate people's statements and reads to paint them scummy" and "feeling suspicious and discussing the parts of someone's statements that make you feel suspicious in order to put pressure on someone" as far as I can tell. Can you explain to me exactly what that difference is, and how what you're doing with my own statements isn't the same thing?
As for my response to griffinpup, at the time his attack on me for my own suspicions against Shinigami was, I felt, a little over-the-top. My own response seemed to be actually a little lower-impact than the original attack.... In rereading his post, it is obvious that pup was after more than just my attacking Shinigami; he wanted to know my reasons. That's not quite the reverse, but it's not the same, either, so we're both wrong. And, to undermine your own foundation, I acknowledged that at the time, anyway.
I think griffionpup made it clear here that he wasn't attacking you over the actual act of voting shinigami and just over the fact that you hadn't provided reasons. What made you so sure that your act of attacking Shinigami was the issue at hand?
I'm pretty sure that I addressed this, already, too. What is your problem, Gday? Digging up buried hatchets to make old cases new again is not a charming trait. I'm not impressed, and I don't think anyone else is, either. The aggressiveness of his statements, paired with his own attack with Shinigami, made me feel that it was a bizarre juxtaposition.
I still rather think that some large portion of your misunderstanding of my statements is deliberate. You came onto me rather hot while I was at the top of the suspicion charts, and you're keeping it up in the face of this new scandal. Your little slip-up was quite telling, though, and while I don't know where RangerCado stands on the truth chart, I'm pretty sure at this point that you're just scum trying to manipulate the situation to your best advantage. It would help if your perceived meanings of my statements were closer to what was actually said, of course.
Sentence by sentence then:
My misunderstanding is based on the fact that you make no sense; as is hopefully evident by now.
And you make no sense to me. That's the beauty of not seeing into each others' heads. There's a bit too much attempt at interpretation on your side, however... try to read the sentence as it's written, first. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Honestly the day end was three days away (one and a half if you don't count weekends); and so I wasn't really paying attention to where you were in the charts. Hammers are not in effect so it doesn't really matter, I will press scum where I see them.
Likewise.
I'd like to point out that this is the only time you've mentioned the slip-up to my face (more on that in a bit).
Really? I suppose I've done a bad job at directly quoting exactly what I'm referring to each time, but I did in fact mention it obliquely at least once.
Just so you know for future reference: you also weaken your pressure on Ranger here as you mention your doubt.
It would help if you made any sense, of course.
I am not pressuring Cado. I'm pressuring you, and I've made my position clear: RC is untrustworthy.
I think that's all the points addressed to me.
Now if you don't mind Demdemeh I have a couple more points that I want you to address (In addition to the ones made above).
There are points that he made that are similar to the ones that I was trying, and failing, to make, yes. Specifically his reaction to active scumhunting and deliberately delaying his own, with a public admission. Does that help you, at all?
Let's compare that to your actual pressure to Shinigami:
First off, I appreciate your defending me, Shinigami, but saying yourself that you think I'm slightly scummy and then later telling people they shouldn't vote for me seems a bit too "reverse psychology". Especially considering your earlier defense of Lenglon, who you also outright stated is "scummy". I'd also like to know your responses to griffinpup's inquiries, which have been conveniently requoted here.
Demdemeh- I don't understand what you are saying when you say that
Quote
On the other hand, your point is very good on other being able to hide while this argument is going on
. After joining this discussion haven't I painted a target on myself? Yeah, just wondering.
I wasn't specifically referring to you with this statement. Others have been far quieter, and have spoken little except with regards to you and Lenglon. You have at least been responding, and have been front and center with the discussion, so hiding isn't a scumtell that could be attributed to you.
On the other hand, your point is very good on other being able to hide while this argument is going on, SK. Why is it so hard to think with this kind of pressure? That's what Mafia is, right? And the entire point of the RVS, from what little I've seen, is to apply pressure to people and see how they react. So, with that observation in play, can you, Shinigami_King, let us know why you choose to play a game which has the potential to disrupt your thinking so strongly? Or is it simply the "Bible of Scumhunting" style of play that Vector is using which upsets you? "If you're suspicious, push... if they move, push harder," right?
So what do you feel is the best strategy for scumhunting?
Once again, I was at a point of acclimatization at that point, and learning how to scumhunt. I was not itemizing the things I should attack people on and viciously pressing my case, as I obviously should be doing, according to some philosophies. This has already been addressed.
In your posts to griffinpup and Lenglon you make a rather odd claim:
Well, since GDay all but claimed mafia up there, and implied that you were a mafia power role with the whole "don't make all our power roles vulnerable to town" thing, I think it's natural to wonder if any other power roles are involved, don't you? Of course, GDay may very well BE mafia, and be attempting to bus you as the actual Town Cop, but that is, of course, WIFOM. As for myself, I think that I've gotten enough ammo lately to feel pretty strongly that GDay is scum, what with the rampant misinterpretation and attacking in the last posts addressed my way, and with the whole typo thing. That just seems like too much of a Freudian slip to me, and I don't think that it's likely that GDay has played enough scum roles in the past to justify that sort of thinking without actually being scum this time. It's just too convenient a typo, really, and there's nothing to gain from looking that scummy, especially on day one; not from an actual townie, anyway.
Lenglon: If you're referring to Shinigami's claim earlier in the day that the probability of the two of you both being scum was low, that was a legitimate response to Gday's statements to that exact fact earlier in the same day. While you're right that it definitely leaves room to infer that he is scum, it leaves equal room to infer that you might be, too. However, Gday's slip was a flat-out admission of guilt through claiming adversity with town. There's a pretty big difference between the two.
Specifically what I'm seeing here is that you are claiming that my sentence was a deliberate statement of intent, rather than what it was; a typo. You know this is bullshit, as you say in your post to griffinpup. So why are you claiming that? Are you trying to whip together a bandwagon?
Have you heard of a Freudian slip? You accidentally say something that you're thinking instead of what you should say. In this case, town instead of scum. Something can be a typo AND an admission of guilt under those conditions. All you have to do is think about your secret scum power roles, and realize how little you want them to be exposed, and BLAM... typing too fast will lead to your inserting "town" when you're thinking of your opponents. That's why I'm claiming that.
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Topic: BM XLI: On Wings of Haven -- Scum Victory! (Read 102188 times)