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[Brood]

Big guns are designed as a fall back weapon as well as a distraction, no enemy commander in his right mind ignores a ship with cannons big enough to sink his ship with 1 shot.

But no matter I'll design some faster ships with reasonably big cannons for hit and run attacks to scatter enemy forces or run down the enemy as they run.

[tryrar]

Guys guys guys what's wrong with the Wasps that are coming up this turn? A group of them can easily sink  any transport+support ships and escorts that come along. Sure, they may not be large, but that just leads them to be underestimated(as UR has repeatedly pointed out, bigger is not always better. We're not having an e-peen waving contest here!)

[Doomblade187]

Brood - Big guns aren't that effective as you think, small minority of ships were sunk by cannons in WW2, mostly aircrafts did the job,  then torpedoes, only then guns

Doomblade187,

a) you are doing it wrong, this game is not about posting one design and hoping for something, It's about making rather complex turns like this - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125269.msg4191995#msg4191995
Adding design here and there, just add clutter and confusion

b) Your ship isn't frigate and too short to fit two 280mm guns, crew and ammo for it. It's a weirdly armed heavy destroyer\light cruiser...
280mm guns aren't toys, guys. Remember that

I would like to note that I don't really intend to have my designs voted for here, just to get discussions started on what we do want. For example, you gave me feedback on a naval design, and that gives us all better ideas for other designs.

Though I will admit I could probably do so in a less confusing manner.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Name: Gunship
Size: 6
Armour: 3
Armament: 12 40mm Anti-Air guns. Damage 5, accuracy 40, size 0.25 ea.
( A ship requires a minimum of 5 engineers. Every 5 gives you a perk slot. New armaments must be developed separately.)
Perks:
Fast
Robust Frame
Large Ammo Capacity

BTW, gunship isn't any better than our existing "cruiser"... same 6 size... We either need to abandon the turret idea or design 10 size ship for it next turn, then it will look like cruiser

Do we even have that AA ship? It was never listed in the stats, never tested, never produced

[tryrar]

We produced one, but it never got any testing this turn

Of course, it'll help to get some sort of flying target to test against....

[mesor]

I think smaller is better for it's job, in effect it's just 1 big anti air turret, it moves around the fleet laying such a concentrated wall of fire in the way of enemy air units that nothing can get past it, I'd suggest keeping the size and building more of them, say 16 in total? Place them in a circle on the outer edge of your fleet and you've got a concetrated wall of AA fire that you'd need hundreds of planes to breach just to run into the fire from the rest of the fleet.

Small but highly nimble with advanced AA weapons seems like the best idea.

[tryrar]

Problem being they lack ANY sort of antiship capability, which means they can't defend themselves against a mixed strikeforce. I was trying to rectify that by designing a 280mm turret for them, but we've run into problems with not knowing the size of the turret and if it can actually fit on the cruiser. We might need to just go ahead and completely scrap this class and design a PROPER cruiser for the role we want it.

[Doomblade187]

Problem being they lack ANY sort of antiship capability, which means they can't defend themselves against a mixed strikeforce. I was trying to rectify that by designing a 280mm turret for them, but we've run into problems with not knowing the size of the turret and if it can actually fit on the cruiser. We might need to just go ahead and completely scrap this class and design a PROPER cruiser for the role we want it.

Let's do that- so, what role exactly are we aiming for here? Coastal defense? General use?

[mesor]

I might be wrong but I think that was the idea, it's designed purely for close support for the fleet to keep air units out of the way and leave the ship to ship combat to the other ships and friendly air units.
It's a good idea since it gives you a highly effective and constant air defense and allows the rest to focus on enemy ships.

[tryrar]

I was thinking general use. It should be good at both AA AND at anti-ship. Now that we have some good weapons for both roles, we should not have much of an issue.

How about this?

Hero-class Cruiser(Герой крейсер)
Engineers:8+metallurgist&naval engineer
Workspace:10

Armor:3'(76mm) plating below waterline, 2^1/2'(64mm) above waterline
Armament:2x twin 280mm turrets, 6x LUP-40 AA/AS turrets, 10x siderail-mounted TP-1s, 8 foward torpedo tubes, 2 aft torpedo tubes

Problem is mesor, we don't have any air units attacking us(AFAIK), so your design in superfluous until we do. Plus, having a dedicated AA is just asking for trouble if you run into a heavy surface fleet, it should have at least ONE gun for defending itself

[Ukrainian Ranger]

AA ship is useful, but I really dislike the whole size system in the game....  Ship with 12 40mm guns is an escort destroyer at best. As well as ship armed with 4 120mm guns...

Another Problem here that real word size difference is quite severe.... Fast attack ships could be as small as 50 tons, destroyers had something like 2000-3000 tons, Cruisers with 10 000 tons, Battleships with 40 000 tons and so on

1-2 Corvettes
2-4 Frigates\Torpedo boats
4-8 Destroyers
8-16 Light cruisers
16-32 cruisers
32-64 Heavy cruisers
64+ Battleships

I'd like something like that with one point of size representing 500 tons of displacement, then it will look normal and logical

But ships like Wasps should be out of the system, I estimate Wasp to be less than 100 tons and should have fractions of the size, like 0.1-0.2

Also, it's logical that our small young nation can't build anything larger than light cruisers, yet

[mesor]

Well in any case, I suggest a slight size increase for the gunship and designing a stronger dedicated AA weapons for ships.
A ship AA and land AA is different and the gunship could use something stronger for it's role, by all means make its elevation optional an AA gun will still work great for shreding bridges and anything on the deck of a ship in battle and with enough punch or with an armor piercing or explosive ammo it could breach ships armor.

Not likely to sink a ship but it'd be a great distraction.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

40 mm AA guns are very serious threat to any aircraft of early thirties

Also, you guys ignore one simple thing, there are no AA or no AA guns in navy, it all depends on what you load into the gun, choose shell type and:  Bam! You got a flak. Even main guns of battleships were used to shot down enemy aircrafts

We rather need lower caliber automatic guns to counter low flying aircrafts, or just use TP-1s we have already

[Brood]

Hmmm that works, maybe create a short range multi barrel small caliber rotational weapon?

Something that can throw a wall of lead out at extreme speeds very quickly so anything that comes close to attack will be torn to pieces.
We have long range slow firing so we could use a shorter range rapid fire weapon and multiple barrels makes that easier then doing it with a single barrel and also removes the risk of a jam, if one barrel jams the other 1-3 keep going.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Hmmm that works, maybe create a short range multi barrel small caliber weapon rotational weapon?

You mean this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan ?   Nice toy, nice, but very advanced engineering and expensive. Doubt that we can design a practical model

I prefer using quad machine-guns, way easier to design and almost as good. And we have heavy machine-gun already