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[notquitethere]

Small Claims

Student #[NQT] wakes with a start from a sneaky snooze beneath a book.

"Oh! There were some things I wanted to say. POTL-san was Cool Boots-chan (the one I talked about yesterday) and lived in house 1. I was redirected there on night one.

"Miss Leafsnail-san, I went to your house last night and it was FUCKING TERRIFYING. Explanations please."

[Toaster]

NQT:  How about you address some of the posts out to you?

[notquitethere]

NQT:  You are lurky as hell and totally noncommittal, though.  Why don't you give us some suspects?

"Well, Toaster-san, I think Leafsnail-san is, if not a bully, then a possibly-not-benign third-party, so there's that. More suspicions to follow as I step up my investigatory efforts!"

Commenting on the night like this is scummy. Its in the same vein as saying something like "good thing the doctor protected the right person last night"

"Duly noted Zombie-san. I might also point out that finding tiny bullshit things to vote people over is also scummy."

NQT, will you do the same thing you did the previous days, which is to add absolutely nothing to the game while people forget about you?

"One thousand apologies Deathsword-san, I've been very busy with my homework recently but now I should be able to better attend to the bullying problem at this school. I've said what I've learned in my night time investigations and I think Leafsnail-san owes us some explanations for her very frightening house."

[ToonyMan]

Vote Count

(0)Griffion -
(1)Leafsnail - Notquitethere
(0)Captain Ford -
(1)Toaster - Tiruin
(0)Tiruin -
(2)Dariush - Shinigami_King, Leafsnail
(0)Zombie Urist -
(0)Shinigami_King -
(1)Deathsword - Toaster
(2)Notquitethere - Zombie Urist, Deathsword
(1)Birdy51 - Dariush

(3)Not Voting: Giffion, Captain Ford, Birdy51

Day 3 will last until Wednesday 6/26 at 11 PM EST

[Captain Ford]

PFW

Tiruin:

"I'm busy reading up, ma'am. Leafsnail is more..detailed in his posts. WHile he and I don't see eye-to-eye, Toaster's recent activity just screams of 'I want you gone' for reasons more pointed towards malevolent intentions than not. I'll get that info later. Just you wait.

"While waiting, try some noodles I got. Also, why are you putting those two as your question there?

"...Why're you going to fall from the sky tonight yet you're with us in class today? Yes this is a serious question."

That's interesting, because I felt exactly the opposite way after reading through both their posts. Leafsnail's guilty of pretty heavy tunneling on both days so far, aside from potshots he took at Dariush.


Leafsnail:

SECOND, I would like to know who Leafsnail and Dariush visited (if anyone) and whose silhouettes they saw, as they're the ones I'm most suspicious of at this juncture.

Why?  This seems like a suspiciously specific and not very useful request.

1. Because if anyone saw you, they'd be able to verify your story.
2. Because if you were at either of the victim's houses (Phantom or Vector), you're a suspect.
3. Because if you say you weren't at either of the victim's houses, someone might be able to contradict that.
4. Because it denies you the chance to come up with a lie later on down the road.

Although now I'm only interested in you and not Dariush.

Your scumhunting this game has been particularly terrible. You may have talked to the people you were voting for a lot, but there was no attempt on your part to push for more information. Once you'd landed your vote on them, you just spent your time explaining why you were voting them and further fortifying your case.

Blaming Lenglon for trying to tie up the vote when she had asked questions trying to figure out whether or not to do so and had not been given advice on the matter is particularly bad, especially since you didn't offer any advice of your own until AFTERWARDS, even though you were available at the time.

What you did to Ranger was worse, though. You basically voted to lynch him because he was confused about whether or not revealing his house number was a good idea or not.

I'm pretty much totally convinced you're scum at this point.


Toaster:

"And to note on that death thing..it seems like Soli-san is tied to Phantom-san. He followed her, if you'd note the last declaration by our principal...But I'd really like to know how those aren't 'town-aligned'.

If that's not a cult, I'll eat my proverbial hat.

It's not a cult. They were sharing a house.


Birdy51/zombie urist/various:

He can be third party. He can also be mafia and not have access to the mafia-kill. He might be able to bully from space, despite not having a vote.

You've got me on the possibility of him being a third party. That is one dynamic that hasn't been explored yet. However, I am still not entirely set on the whole "bullies from space" business. That concept feels a bit absurd to me.

It would be incredibly overpowered for me to be able to bully people from space for two nights with no risk of being lynched. That would essentially allow me to waste three days of the town's time. Even if you caught me on the first night, there's nothing you'd be able to do about it.

Also, there's the part where if I'm scum, then my D3 ability is a bonus scum kill, and I'd have the scumteam to give me information about where to strike. Really, nothing about my role makes much sense if I'm scum.

I'm not third party, but I almost certainly am (or was) a target for somebody else's wincon.


notquitethere:

Small Claims

Student #[NQT] wakes with a start from a sneaky snooze beneath a book.

"Oh! There were some things I wanted to say. POTL-san was Cool Boots-chan (the one I talked about yesterday) and lived in house 1. I was redirected there on night one.

Interesting Note: The fact that you didn't see Solifuge there means he visited someone else's house on Night 1. I wonder if anyone saw him(her).

"Miss Leafsnail-san, I went to your house last night and it was FUCKING TERRIFYING. Explanations please."

I am now even more convinced that Leafsnail is scum. (I still don't have a vote)

FYI, if he doesn't get lynched or give a satisfactory explanation by the end of the day, give me his house number and I'll take him down tonight.

[Leafsnail]

"Miss Leafsnail-san, I went to your house last night and it was FUCKING TERRIFYING. Explanations please."

I have no idea at all.  I can't see how my role would correlate with having a scary house - I'm a Class Rep.  Unless your character regards piles of books and work and stuff as scary, maybe?

1. Because if anyone saw you, they'd be able to verify your story.
2. Because if you were at either of the victim's houses (Phantom or Vector), you're a suspect.
3. Because if you say you weren't at either of the victim's houses, someone might be able to contradict that.
4. Because it denies you the chance to come up with a lie later on down the road.

It would also allow mafia members to better fake their claims and target their kills later, and this outweighs those four points otherwise we'd all be claiming.  I'd be prepared to reveal that information if a majority of players wanted me to, but there's really not much of a reason at all to respond to a single person asking for information (when they might want it purely for bad reasons).

Your scumhunting this game has been particularly terrible. You may have talked to the people you were voting for a lot, but there was no attempt on your part to push for more information. Once you'd landed your vote on them, you just spent your time explaining why you were voting them and further fortifying your case.

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all.  I made my reasoning for voting clear and engaged with the people I was voting.

Blaming Lenglon for trying to tie up the vote when she had asked questions trying to figure out whether or not to do so and had not been given advice on the matter is particularly bad, especially since you didn't offer any advice of your own until AFTERWARDS, even though you were available at the time.

Can you state exactly what you mean here?  Unless you're referring to a different post than what I think you are, I wasn't available to respond to that one.  If I was I would have responded to it.

What you did to Ranger was worse, though. You basically voted to lynch him because he was confused about whether or not revealing his house number was a good idea or not.

Ranger was non-town and I stand by yesterday's lynch.  You should only allow a claimed third party to survive if you a) find their claim believable and b) are sure they are prepared to work with the town.  His actions took away both of those, and I still don't really think that either of them were the case.

Sooo... I take it that admitted bandwagoning on Birdy's part is not a relevant point. The fact that Solifuge disappeared for an entire day after atrociously lurking on D1 isn't either. The same apparently goes for my case on Cado, whom you've voted with me on the same grounds. But a completely groundless case backed with empty unfalsifiable accusations is! And the fact that you didn't even once even hiccup in my direction about your perceived lack of relevant points in my cases doesn't matter!

I have in the past pointed out I thought your repeated insults and bluster bullshit attempts at mislynches rather than serious attempts to find scum.  I guess the Cado thing was different, but I believe that Cado was an anti-town player from another faction to you, so you could make a genuine case on him.

To be fair though, I suppose I may have stated my view poorly.  You start from one kindof tenuous point, then instead of developing it you just sortof berate that player constantly in order to try and wind them up in the hope that you'll get them angry enough to say dumb things and be easier to mislynch.  The "admitted bandwagoning" from birdy is a much weaker tell than you seem to think it is, considering he seems to be using a different definition to normal.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Extend.

"Miss Leafsnail-san, I went to your house last night and it was FUCKING TERRIFYING. Explanations please."

I have no idea at all.  I can't see how my role would correlate with having a scary house - I'm a Class Rep.  Unless your character regards piles of books and work and stuff as scary, maybe?

"...Right, something scary. Something to ponder."

NQT

Small Claims

Student #[NQT] wakes with a start from a sneaky snooze beneath a book.

"Oh! There were some things I wanted to say. POTL-san was Cool Boots-chan (the one I talked about yesterday) and lived in house 1. I was redirected there on night one.

"Miss Leafsnail-san, I went to your house last night and it was FUCKING TERRIFYING. Explanations please."

"Strange. Terrifying for you, enough to swear out loud. I hate swearing.

"Seemingly, compared to what you said at the start of Day 3, something of this sort doesn't classify on 'small' claims, or preferably when someone sees something terrifying, it's a bad thing.

"What's up with that, NQT? What were your initial questions for? Why're you delaying until now to give said 'small claims' when you know as much about Leafsnail and that (she) has a terrifying house?

"Anything else backing up that?"


Back to Toaster.

Continued from this post, his notation on Cado seems based purely on the idea that he's scum--explicitly, mafia scum--and now that it flipped non-scum, he's going all clear on that as far as I see. Drop in aggression or assertion, and some strange questions floating about (I've to poke you on that silhouette thing..why're you asking me that one again? Your intention, please.).

Next..that whole ramble on defending and chainsawing. Those grounds were mostly opinionated, and lacking in context quoting. I note that you said and noted something appealing to my observations rather than give your own:

The hesitation seems to be the defining characteristic of most cases on him. Next is, you advocate a lynch on Ranger yet all I see in your past posts is a facade of aggression, along with the obstinacy of an opinion--something you're not backing up given how you word it. You're quite convinced: Why? What posts led you there?

Why do I need to quote something that bloody obvious?  Hell, you admit you see it as well? [1]

(in which I still can't get the [1], but it's obvious you missed the bolded part quite apparently).

Why were you being so elusive around Cado?

Ford:

FYI, if he doesn't get lynched or give a satisfactory explanation by the end of the day, give me his house number and I'll take him down tonight.

"...Take him down? Won't you just evict someone? Also, it's pretty amusing on how I imagine you're going to somehow float up in the sky right after class..because that's quite strange, really.

"Next, you're finding that as reasonable grounds for voting Leafy while not asking his pursuer?"

[Tiruin]

EBWOP

I feel like I'm missing things on Toaster...ergh.

Tiruin:

"And to note on that death thing..it seems like Soli-san is tied to Phantom-san. He followed her, if you'd note the last declaration by our principal...But I'd really like to know how those aren't 'town-aligned'.

If that's not a cult, I'll eat my proverbial hat.

"...What?!!?

"You think there's a cult? Specifically, a cult? Where they do all those dagger-magic ritual thingies? Why so? I have my own explanation why I believe otherwise, but I'd like to know yours."

More specifically, I think there was a cult.  PotL was the head, and Solifuge was a recruit.  PotL got nightkilled, and Soli died with him.  In a traditional cult, all the members die when the head goes.  The reasoning comes 100% from that mod post I quoted- plus, the role name was "third party group."

That could also mean some kind of thing like a follower and a leader. Princess and Maid. It would be pretty ugly if there was a cult, 3 bullies, and an SK (presumed Vector, but I doubt it was an SK judging by the meaning of Yandere). Oh, and third-party others.

FYI, if he doesn't get lynched or give a satisfactory explanation by the end of the day, give me his house number and I'll take him down tonight.

Adding on Ford:
...You take NQT's claim in face value like that, enough to strike h-..wait, you know where his house is?

My view on this game is shifting, so a reread is required.

Shifting how?

[notquitethere]

"Tiruin-sama, please forgive my unsavoury language-- I was emphasising how scary it was (I didn't know if I wanted to say anything before) but I would not usually swear. I can't back it up other than to ask if anyone else has visited Leafsnail-san's house."

"Leafsnail-san, I'm willing to admit the possibility that someone else was being scary to your house (though I saw no one there) but it is very odd. Convince me there's a better case on Dariush-yogisha."

[Tiruin]

"...You do know that terrifying is a general and, in my guess, an opinionated gerund. It can mean..anything that terrifies you. You didn't get details on how it looks like? As in..description, NQT-san?"

[notquitethere]

"You want the truth? I heard insane ravings, someone screaming repeatedly that they can't count up to four. I passed out in fear and awoke feeling lucky to be alive. That's how frightening. For all I know it was you!"

[zombie urist]

It would be incredibly overpowered for me to be able to bully people from space for two nights with no risk of being lynched. That would essentially allow me to waste three days of the town's time. Even if you caught me on the first night, there's nothing you'd be able to do about it.
Also, there's the part where if I'm scum, then my D3 ability is a bonus scum kill, and I'd have the scumteam to give me information about where to strike. Really, nothing about my role makes much sense if I'm scum.
I'm not third party, but I almost certainly am (or was) a target for somebody else's wincon.

Someone's being defensive. 3 scum / 16 players is kinda low. Plus there's already 4 flipped third parties. Explain the bolded part please.

"Leafsnail-san, I'm willing to admit the possibility that someone else was being scary to your house (though I saw no one there) but it is very odd. Convince me there's a better case on Dariush-yogisha."

Why are you setting up a one-or-the-other situation?

Commenting on the night like this is scummy. Its in the same vein as saying something like "good thing the doctor protected the right person last night"

"Duly noted Zombie-san. I might also point out that finding tiny bullshit things to vote people over is also scummy."

The real scumhuntings in the details. Its also a valid tell and your efforts to dismiss it are obvious.

"You want the truth? I heard insane ravings, someone screaming repeatedly that they can't count up to four. I passed out in fear and awoke feeling lucky to be alive. That's how frightening. For all I know it was you!"

Why didn't you claim this part earlier? What do you think about LS' counterclaim?

[Toaster]

Ford:

Toaster:

"And to note on that death thing..it seems like Soli-san is tied to Phantom-san. He followed her, if you'd note the last declaration by our principal...But I'd really like to know how those aren't 'town-aligned'.

If that's not a cult, I'll eat my proverbial hat.

It's not a cult. They were sharing a house.

What makes you say this?  From the flavor, I don't see this conclusion at all.

I'm not third party, but I almost certainly am (or was) a target for somebody else's wincon.

You've already claimed a lot- why not claim enough to define this?

Let me just ask you this bluntly- do you currently have a wincon at all?


NQT:  This vote is staying until you actually contribute.  This "post" doesn't count at all.


Leaf:  If you say NQT is lying, why do you not find that voteworthy?


Tiruin:

Why were you being so elusive around Cado?

Don't strawman me.  Calling my opinion on Cado elusive is a pile of crap and you know it.  He was claimed non-town.  I suspected he was mafia.  I was incorrect, but I don't regret his lynch at all.  Is that straightforward enough for you?

Next..that whole ramble on defending and chainsawing. Those grounds were mostly opinionated, and lacking in context quoting. I note that you said and noted something appealing to my observations rather than give your own:

The hesitation seems to be the defining characteristic of most cases on him. Next is, you advocate a lynch on Ranger yet all I see in your past posts is a facade of aggression, along with the obstinacy of an opinion--something you're not backing up given how you word it. You're quite convinced: Why? What posts led you there?

Why do I need to quote something that bloody obvious?  Hell, you admit you see it as well? [1]

(in which I still can't get the [1], but it's obvious you missed the bolded part quite apparently).

What?  Are you even reading my posts?  The [1] is a footnote which you appear to have completely missed.  Allow me to quote it for you, straight from that same post:

[1] Since I know you won't drop it until I quote the obvious for you, here:

I've said many times in many games before that dribbling out a claim rather than putting it all out in one piece is scummy.  Ranger executes the dribble claim here:

Spoiler: Spoilered claim- note each quote is a separate post by him (click to show/hide)

I'm claiming a pro-town third-party role. Didn't think it smart to claim day 1, (look how that ended last time) so i waited. (plus my win-con just got harder, so better to help you guys)

I can also confirm a few things. Abilities can target a house, affecting all the occupants. I believe i know which house Tiruin is in so yes someone was there with her. Theres probably a third-party helper for the bullies.

I also can inspect a house to know how many people were in it during the night. And I can't leave my house. Ever. It bites.

Tiruin: Because my win-con requires the town alive, it got harder with Lenglon's death, and i'm betting theres some sort of alignment checking role that will find me not town. (seriously, my luck is terrible when i care what the outcome is) And i inspected a house and was told there were two people in it so i may know where you live... dang it creepy sayings.

creepy saying: I know where you live.

I also didn't inspect house 8 so that narrows it down a bit.

I need town-alignment players whos roles are male alive. Lenglon had a male role so that made it harder for my win-condition now that she's dead. Helping the town as a whole works better for this because i have no clue who has a male role.

I must spend a night alone with any town boy to win. And since i can't leave my house, it is very difficult to do this without a lot of luck, and since me dying doesn't hurt the town as much as it would a full town role, i can just buffer a hit from a stray NK.

Dariush: Tiruin said someone visited her house. I got a result that two people were in a house together.  (I'll say which if Tiruin thinks i can be trusted) So i guessed i may have gotten her house. As far as i know, my house just becomes unenterable. If i say my house number, i just labeled myself as an NK target. And if they do target and kill me, fair guess is the NK works normally. If not, it could be house based.

Five posts to dribble out a claim, and that's before the house number nonsense.  That's way too long to do a claim.

Speaking of house number nonsense...

Spoiler: Spolied again- note these posts are chronological order (click to show/hide)

If 2 more people ask for my house number, i'll give.

Claim your house.

Dariush: lets put this up to the public. you as well as 2 others (i think) have told me to claim my house. If 3 more ask, i'll do it, and i'll blame you if i die tonight.

If that doesn't set your scumdar ablaze, it's time to get it recalibrated.  Or replaced.  Or it doesn't matter because you're his scumbuddy, one of the above.

Do I need to draw you a picture?

My view on this game is shifting, so a reread is required.

Shifting how?

I'm shocked he flipped non-mafia.  I was fully prepared to hang you next, but without the association with Ranger, you drop from "Obvscum" to "Wasting time defending a non-town pointlessly."  That's dumb, but not really scummy.

[Leafsnail]

"Leafsnail-san, I'm willing to admit the possibility that someone else was being scary to your house (though I saw no one there) but it is very odd. Convince me there's a better case on Dariush-yogisha."

I'm honestly pretty baffled by this whole spooky house thing.  I've already stated my reasons for voting Dariush, if you have any specific point of that you'd like to question me on then be my guest.

Leaf:  If you say NQT is lying, why do you not find that voteworthy?

I don't really see why someone would lie in that way.  If he wanted to get me lynched he could claim an actual inspection rather than a vague flavoury thing, and I'm struggling to see why someone would wholly fabricate a claim like that.  It seems more likely that he's misinterpreting the flavour in a weird way.

"You want the truth? I heard insane ravings, someone screaming repeatedly that they can't count up to four. I passed out in fear and awoke feeling lucky to be alive. That's how frightening. For all I know it was you!"

I wasn't at my house last night, so I'm not really sure what could've been happening there.

[birdy51]

You hit the nail on the head about the bandwagoning. It was entirely shameless.

As far as I am concerned, I would have been much happier to see you get lynched than RangerCado, so I joined the band. Why? Because I believed that he was telling the truth about being a third-party. I stated that fact and attempted to justify his flailing, only to be ignored.

Then, there was you. A player who has done little to add to the game outside of repeated insults against other players, tunneling, and a blatant disregard to the swearing policy, because "I'm Dariush".

So, that being my situation, what would you have had me do? Sit down, shut up, and look pretty? Hell no. If someone is going to be lynched, it may as well be a player who I consider to be scummy, as opposed to one that is innocent. This is all a simple matter of common sense.

Keep who trust, lynch who you cannot trust.

Oh seriously? SERIOUSLY? Your entire argument is that you voted someone just because they aren't a fucking cretin Cado who is a completely useless third party in the best case and similarly completely useless scum in the worst? And I have done 'little' to add to the game? That is your grounds for considering me scummy? So, not DS, whom I completely forgotten to even be in this game, not Solifuge, who didn't post a single time during D2, not NQT, not Cado himself, who didn't do anything at all except claim in the stupidest way possible and not even attempt to explain his actions, but me.

Creatures like you just completely break my will to play.  -_-

Here are the facts. I don't trust you or your style of play. You were the next available candidate. As opposed to simply lynching a third party, my intention was to lynch you, on the grounds of what I consider to be scummy behavior.

As for everything else, I have already mentioned that I believed Ranger's claim. On the note of Solifuge and Deathsword, I have not yet developed a taste for attacking lurkers. I don't like the idea of accusing a player of being scum when he might not be able to protect himself. Solifuge's absence could be an exception to that rule, as you pointed out he was active in other threads. NQT's behavior is unorthodox. I need to read further in on him.

Anything else you wish to ask?


A final note to everyone.

I will be gone starting on Thursday and I will be returning on Sunday. Feel free to direct questions towards me, even during the break. I shall endeavor to answer them promptly on my return.

What time I do have left between packing and other such things will be sent rereading the thread and compiling reads. I have been dangerously focused on what is in front of my nose, and I need to get some perspective on the bigger picture.