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Author Topic: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Game Over]  (Read 172047 times)

Captain Ford

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #675 on: June 06, 2013, 08:46:40 pm »

To everyone:  Apparently voting to save yourself at the expense of town isn't seen as scummy by everyone.  If you haven't expressed an opinion on this subject yet could you do so? Also, express your reasoning behind your conclusion.
There's more to this. Your flip lends context to the struggles of day 1 and can help the rest of the team find scum. Saving yourself may lead to you being lynched right away the next day, wasting an entire day for the town. So there really is a lot more to be considered when making your decision.

Also, I really only weighed in on "you vs. them", not "you vs. a no-lynch". That's two totally different things.

Never suicide, though. That is never helpful.



Spoiler (click to show/hide)



My imaginary vote goes to Vecooster for sitting by the sidelines last night without voting to extend.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Toaster

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #676 on: June 06, 2013, 09:43:18 pm »

Reminder:
V/LA:  6/7 through 6/9.  I don't know how much PFP I can do in that time frame, if any.

I'm totally cool with my vote on Jimvector.  Nerjin Scum is pretty plausible too though so I won't be sad if he hangs.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #677 on: June 06, 2013, 09:47:15 pm »

Reads on other players

Why are you doing this?

2. Better question is why not? The houses system (With us not knowing who owns which house and some of us don't even have one) gives a pretty big hint that NKs will not be the same. It also opens up a lot more options for role powers.

For all you know the nightkill operates exactly the same as it always does. For all you know it doesn't.

Until you have something more concrete to work with, what good is this speculation?

3. Isn't that what putting pressure on someone is though? A test to see their reaction and whether or not you should continue questioning them? And alone, no. A single vote with this many players won't make or break someone.

Yes, that is what a pressure vote is, but that's not what I'm asking.

Who can you say among your list of suspects that you want to lynch, no pressure required?

And if it was for convenience, why didn't i just leave my vote on the player (Lenglon) who was more likely to get majority votes?

There's more to voting the most convenient target than just the amount of votes that player has. If it hides you better as scum, that's also a convenient target.

In this case it could be both; Nerjin had plenty of votes already, had several people make strong cases against him, and Lenglon begun having a few players here and there defend her. It's easy enough to go with the flow and be 'convinced' by arguments presented by other players regarding both of these players and change your vote.

To everyone:  Apparently voting to save yourself at the expense of town isn't seen as scummy by everyone.  If you haven't expressed an opinion on this subject yet could you do so? Also, express your reasoning behind your conclusion.

I don't think anybody should do a last minute vote change to save their own skin ever, since all that does is move their lynch from Day 1 to Day 2. They're better off dying proud and defiant than tying the vote and messing the rest of the town up.

But it's only as scummy as how it's done; if they're fighting tooth and nail trying to convince everyone of their case, then tying the vote just barely passes into not okay territory. If they silently wait until the last minute to change their vote, a speedy Day 2 lynch is better than they deserve.

It's the foundation on which your throne of lies sits.

It is a very nice throne.

Oh, excuse me. A very nice throne you accuse me of sitting upon.

Same post as the centerpiece.  It's just a reinforcement on the same theme (If I acted scummy it's because the Jim facet was acting like a goofball.  The Vector facet is in charge now and is totally town, yo.)

Do you deny that replacements in general favor the slot?

I don't understand the point of you mentioning this, when my answer to that particular RV question would be identical regardless of my alignment.

This post is a good example of you throwing around gentle poking "attacks" without real substance or follow-through. 

This is an unfair example, actually, since that post is in the early game, when most people are making gentle poking "attacks" without real substance or follow-through.

So when, assuming you think it did, did RVS end?

Around when you voted me and when I voted SK.

Ironic because you're doing the same thing.  (PS:  Being lazy is scummy, not the hypocrisy part, before you throw that back at me.)

I disagree, of course.

I don't know how you can accuse me of being lazy in this game. In terms of productivity and activity I think this is one of my better games, compared to when I last played before this. (Not swimming in a sea of math homework helps.)

Riddle me this- how comparatively scummy are Nerjin, NQT, Ranger, and Solifuge?

NQT >>>>> Nerjin >> RangerCado >> Solifuge.

"Vecoovster-senpai, after reviewing last night's events, I noticed that you took no part in it, but spoke both just before and just after they took place. you did not attempt to extend, you left your vote on NQT-senpai, and yet you were there for that entire sequence of events. Why did you stand on the sidelines and do nothing?"

I most certainly was not there for that entire sequence of events. I made a post before and a post after. This does not mean I was watching what was going on. I was engaged in non-mafia activities, which I occasionally indulge in out of necessity and sometimes for diversion. Things like eating, sleeping, playing a video game or two.

Had I witnessed the silliness that was the game near the deadline, I would have broken the tie. It would have been against Nerjin, for all of you who are rushing to ask me that.

My imaginary vote goes to Vecooster for sitting by the sidelines last night without voting to extend.

Everybody has a goshdarned stiffie over extensions.

I hate extensions. Hating extensions is my thing. This is an old hatred, extending back years. They slow the game down and I am impatient. If I request an extension, it's because I personally do not have enough time to play, I haven't gotten a good enough read on the game to make a solid decision, I want to hear from somebody who's been inactive, or, on occasion, I'm being nice.

This is not the case with this game. I'd rather see people make up their goshdarned minds, especially in the last minute, and get on with the goshdarned game, than extend.

See my response to Lenglon about sitting idly by. If I was around I still wouldn't have extended, by the way. But breaking the tie is something I would have been more than willing to do.
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griffinpup

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #678 on: June 06, 2013, 09:52:43 pm »


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Lenglon

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #679 on: June 06, 2013, 10:02:49 pm »

unvote
I don't think anybody should do a last minute vote change to save their own skin ever, since all that does is move their lynch from Day 1 to Day 2. They're better off dying proud and defiant than tying the vote and messing the rest of the town up.

...

But it's only as scummy as how it's done; if they're fighting tooth and nail trying to convince everyone of their case, then tying the vote just barely passes into not okay territory. If they silently wait until the last minute to change their vote, a speedy Day 2 lynch is better than they deserve.

...

Had I witnessed the silliness that was the game near the deadline, I would have broken the tie. It would have been against Nerjin, for all of you who are rushing to ask me that.

...

See my response to Lenglon about sitting idly by. If I was around I still wouldn't have extended, by the way. But breaking the tie is something I would have been more than willing to do.
"Jcoovster-senpai: why didn't you voice an opinion about if I should have tried to tie the vote before the day nearly ended? I was very open about what I was planning to do, and I wanted input from my seniors. the only opinions I got were from Ford-senpai and Griff-san, but you were active and posted at the time. If you thought I was planning to do wrong, why didn't you warn me before I tried it? If you were available at 10 minutes before, you could have made time to interfere. You even acknowledged that the vote was tied at the time you posted, and I had said quite clearly what I planned to do. I cannot believe you were somehow ignorant of the events that were about to occur."
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Lenglon

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #680 on: June 06, 2013, 10:05:43 pm »

Toony, could we please get a prod on deathsword?
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Teneb

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #681 on: June 06, 2013, 10:06:14 pm »

Internet was horribly bad today and yesterday. I'll have a post out tomorrow.
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #682 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:03 pm »

I'm dead set against a Lenglon lynch now. Unless she's composed of nothing but guts and brains and has a gambling problem, I can't see any way that she's scum.
Huuurrr durrrr, this is lucid Phantom here to tell you that tired Phantom is even more of a moron than normal Phantom and has the additional flaw of being unable to read apparently.

Still reading Lenglon as flailing new-town but I'm less sure now that I'm actually reading what was written. For some reason I thought she was originally tying the vote to prevent Nerjin from being lynched instead of herself.

I'm slightly less sure of Nerjin's scummitude than I was before, but my vote is staying where it is.


Ford:
So, Imaginary Unvote Nerjin. I pronounce you Squeaky Clean Townie.
Are you really that easy to win over with emotional appeals? I should remember that in the future when I'm playing as scum.
Many people have said this and yet no one has done it yet. In fact, the few times that people successfully discouraged me from relying on my gut, it turned out to be right.

In fact, many of the people who said this were scum. I think I'll go back and count the number of times this came up and then decide on that how much harder I should press my case on you.

Why make this criticism anyway? What was the point of pointing this out?
Because in the space of thirty minutes you went from imaginary voting him, to calling him the towniest of town. Also, this:

If I was in either of your position and I were scum, I would be abusing the heck out of this.

Why are you flip-flopping all over the place? First Nerjin's scum then he's suddenly beyond suspicion, then I'm scum, then suddenly Vecooster is scum. I know you're unlynchable and "not afraid" and all that, but at least try to be the tiniest bit consistent?


NQT: I know it was rhetorical, but could you at least acknowledge my earlier question instead of ignoring it?
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zombie urist

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #683 on: June 06, 2013, 11:04:09 pm »

NQT: I know it was rhetorical, but could you at least acknowledge my earlier question instead of ignoring it?
What's the point of answering a rhetorical question?

Internet was horribly bad today and yesterday. I'll have a post out tomorrow.
Toony, could we please get a prod on deathsword?
This was pretty convenient.  :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #684 on: June 06, 2013, 11:26:24 pm »

"Jcoovster-senpai: why didn't you voice an opinion about if I should have tried to tie the vote before the day nearly ended? I was very open about what I was planning to do, and I wanted input from my seniors. the only opinions I got were from Ford-senpai and Griff-san, but you were active and posted at the time. If you thought I was planning to do wrong, why didn't you warn me before I tried it? If you were available at 10 minutes before, you could have made time to interfere. You even acknowledged that the vote was tied at the time you posted, and I had said quite clearly what I planned to do. I cannot believe you were somehow ignorant of the events that were about to occur."

How am I scum for not telling you what not to do?

How does that even make any sense?

Even if I were somehow available enough to give you the advice, which I shall repeat, I was not.
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Shinigami_King

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #685 on: June 07, 2013, 12:09:58 am »

Oh god... so tired... don't want to move... promised post... well F*ck. Seeing as I promised, here is a semi coherent post.

My read on Lenglon- The body of this can wait until tomorrow for when I get out of school, that will be before the lynch and I will have the entire afternoon off. For now I'll summarize my thoughts.
-I lie meta. I think it's cool to be able to know what to expect before even staring and using those inconsistencies as a method to scum hunt. Lenglon has been acting normally. That entire busyness with the last minute votes... well I'm still confused.
-Lenglon, disregarding her meta, is still a town read to me.
      a. Because she seems to actively be looking for scum
      b. She seems to do a relatively decent job at scumhunting
      c. She hasn't really dropped any major scumtells in my oppinion

More on Lenglon tomorrow~

My read on Nerjin- He has weak cases and seems to jump from person to person. Normally I wouldn't care due to the fact that he could just be pressuring but his cases just don't seem to stick.
-Once again that last minute lynch session thing-a-ma-do-hickey throws me off so I don't know.
-I like what he is doing with all the reads and how he is recording his notes. What I don't like is how there is no pressure to his reads. He simply states things. It feels like he wants to look like good guy Greg.

That's all right now really. I'm really tired.  :'(
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Nerjin

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #686 on: June 07, 2013, 12:13:26 am »

I plan to pressure when I finish my full reads. That being said internet's not being cooperative.
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Lenglon

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #687 on: June 07, 2013, 12:17:41 am »

"Um, Jecoovster-senpai, your answer to me was incomplete. You said that if you had known the vote was tied, you would have voted to break it. you said ten minutes before the day end that the vote was tied. you did not vote to break the tie. This contradiction screams scum to me."
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #688 on: June 07, 2013, 01:08:24 am »

"Um, Jecoovster-senpai, your answer to me was incomplete. You said that if you had known the vote was tied, you would have voted to break it. you said ten minutes before the day end that the vote was tied. you did not vote to break the tie. This contradiction screams scum to me."

I pointed out the tie as soon as I saw it, and then I went back to what I was doing, which was not sitting in front of my computer refreshing the thread. I knew the deadline was soon but I had no idea that it was ten minutes away. Had I known I might've broke the tie right then and there, but then we come back to I WAS NOT AROUND VERY MUCH.

Do you have any idea how unrealistic it is to expect that players in a game of forum mafia will be available enough to make time-critical decisions like that?

In other words, get off my junk.

I plan to pressure when I finish my full reads. That being said internet's not being cooperative.

At the rate you're going, we can expect pressure from your reads some time during... Day 3.

What a clever time-wasting strategy!
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Tiruin

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Re: Toon Mafia VII - But I Don't Want To Re:Love! [Day 1]
« Reply #689 on: June 07, 2013, 01:48:21 am »

Unvote Nerjin

This post has been made from descending observations from my last post.

Sorry. Real busy. Wall of text.


Deathsword
Lenglon, you are awefuly defensive when it comes to Tiruin. Why are you buddying up to her? She can easily defend herself.
This is quite frankly pathetic. The only time I defended Tiruin-sama in any way was when Jim-chan was being hurtful to her and wasn't even trying to scumhunt in the process. I haven't touched a single scumhunting-related accusation. I just plain don't like it when people are abusive jerks to each other. I have no intention of letting people be needlessly hurtful, period. I was quite clear on that at the time, and this entire accusation is quite frankly stupid.
One could argue that by calling more agressive people jerks and abusive, you are being a jerk yourself. You are being quite harsh in your accusations of me being scum. But being a jerk is hardly scummy, nor is hipocrisy (as I said earlier). The point is that if Tiruin felt bothered by another player's attitute, she could easily handle that herself, instead of having someone look like her friend and defend her.
What is 'being quite harsh' on her accusations to you mean? Do you feel that she's trying to set you up or something? Seems that you're bothered by Lenglon's strikes at you to point this out without any expounding on the matter.

And no, calling other people jerks because they are aggressive or abusive does not make you a jerk. That's just stupid. >_>

You stated
Quote
Once more appeals to emotion and attempts to discredit me. Also, why not just say "I disagree" (as some have said, before you accuse me of "regurgitating") instead of making some great block of text in which you say exactly the same thing in a round-about and emotionally-infused way? It could be a slip. It could be a smokescreen. Either way, it looks wierd and suspicious.
In regard to when you called her out for fluffy posts. You did not quote or link said fluffy posts along with their context and theoretical use. Why didn't you?

Also, that note to me here invokes testimonials (or...opinions from other people as the idea I'm aiming for). I don't want that.

While I do get that you seemingly answered me question
Deathsword, speaking of nitpicking, I noticed that you didn't even address this question from Tiruin:
Deathsword: What do you think of how Lenglon is working on her targets? Is there any scummy motive to her posts in relation to them?
You also took until today to even remotely address my lurking accusation to you. Why are you being so careful to nitpick what little details you think will compliment your arguments best, and not answering anything that seems inconvenient at the time?
I believe the answer to Tiruin's question is within that wall of text, even if I haven't specifically pointed it out. As for your second accusation, I have been busy. Extremely so. I'm swamped in tests, hard ones. I even had one today. So I simply cannot be posting at all times. If you can (and it seems that way), good for you. I can't.
I want a straight answer. Not something to be connected or pulled out of context.


Ford
"Very interesting. So we can't boot you out of here, nor can you boot anyone else out, huh. I believe you've an ulterior motive given that idea, or you're just a bully with a fair disguise." Meaning: Some king of unlynchable bully..though I find it hard to believe (but that annoying case of VECTOR WAS UN-NK-ABLE BUT SCUM in one of the Mafia games now weigh on my suspicions) but I still find it hard to believe. Third-party, perhaps..
I really would rather you judge me on my actions than on my claim. I haven't claimed enough for you to make an informed judgment based solely on my claim.
True, yeah..I was judging because of that still traumatic episode of Vector in that one game wherein she was bulletproof and had a recruiting power. That one BYOE. >_<

"So you seem too much of a goody-two-shoes to be kicked out, I'd like to ask how you're going to use your rapport to your advantage, Ford-san?"

NQT
Tiruin picks up an 8B pencil and begins filing out the paper.

Sleeping Arrangements and Shadows
Everyone- yes you- do you think we should stay in our own houses tonight?
> If you want to stay over at my house, I'm ok with it. If you want to stay at your house..err, I'm ok with that too. I've no idea why you're asking this.

Why are you asking this? How do you think house placement (or people placement) makes or has an effect here? I'm seeing it mostly as flavor.


Is there any danger for non-bullies if we mass claim our silhouettes now?
> I believe there is.. given that as we've got something according to who we are, we should safeguard it until a long time later because..err, personal protection? I don't know the correct term for it, but I'm against a mass claim as I'm operating on the factor that we've something new and different from other schools [Mafia games]--it must have importance.

Is it likely that bullies need to know where we live or where we're sleeping to get us?
> I figure this would be something that would happen, but given how the principal acts with the local police force and neighborhood security, once a strike is given (because those bully rumors about the past are scary..), then the house is off limits. So..I'm pretty undecided here, but I'm leaning on 'they'll do it randomly' given how the Principal's Original Rules are.

= "6. A kicked out, harassed/bullied away, dead, or won player's house cannot be entered anymore."



...Why're you asking such specific questions?


Leafsnail
To add to Leafsnail, What's wrong with being 'meek as hell', huh? How does that even avoid anything?
If you state your opinions clearly then you are likely to get into fights and attract attention.  If you act meek and passive then you are not.  Avoiding attention is something highly desirable for mafia members, and they don't care about the downside to being meek (totally ineffective scumhunting) while town players do.

Second, you didn't even reply to her most pertinent point to your allegation back there. Why didn't you, and what did you make of it, assuming you read over it.
Yeah I didn't read it because it was a huge awkward wall of purple text.

It starts with a deflection to lurkers, again missing the point of active lurking as an allegation.  The rest of it seems to be an attempt to buddy me, or stuff I feel I have already adequately responded to.
On the first part: That is generalizing, though I do have to agree on that matter of being meek. However, anyone can prod at posts made by a person--it is not the case that someone is meek, that they are aiming for something ulterior. I've to disagree with the bolded part as this is ultimately a downfall or detriment in the long run for scumbags, newbie or not. What I'm seeing are scum wanting to try to be active--waiting until people would slip up-- then riding their faults and gauging other's responses. Easy scum game that way.

To be evasive? Easy spotting.

Second part: No. Really. You state what you see there, but not addressing any part of it to Lenglon, huh. You see an attempt, and you don't remark on that attempt to her?


Jim Vector
Shinigami:
"Seeing as you've known Lenglon for quite some time, what do you see about her? Read? What about her post-habits? Regardless of roleplaying, do you see anything else there?"

Wait, are there a bunch of kids from the same high middle school playing this game right now?
They played in the same BMs..so I'm guessing that works.


zombie urist
ZU: You're missing out on a lot--I'm guessing its due to activity, what's your idea on the current situation?
Sometimes it feels like Lenglon's playing an entirely different game.  ???
Really? That's it? That's your whole idea on the current situation at the time of your post there?

As an added question: What game is she playing?


Solifuge
I love your art.

What's your take on using your personal vote anyway? Why later, instead of the current time? Will the time being near day end have any effect on any case you're trying to present?


Nerjin
Quote
Is there any danger for non-bullies if we mass claim our silhouettes now?

Yes because Toony said in the OP that he'd probably penalize mass-claims early on.
No he didn't.
Quote
3. I frown on mass-claiming early on.  I'll try to develop a system where mass-claiming D1 won't work but there's nothing I can do to stop players besides frown and maybe penalize them.  Don't do it.
He'd frown. Making the principal frown isn't a good thing.

What's your take on that hypothetical mass-claim?


Griffio-griffinpup
Tiruin:  What's your opinion on Lenglon jumping to your defense?
"Ambivalent. I saw nothing wrong with her remark on Jim being a meanie meanie..nor do I see any relation with that point of her 'defending me' in a Mafia context."



Lenglon
Nerjin: I think I understand why you have multiple people voting for you now, Is there any reason for me not to join in?
Your first RPless post and you manage to say what is likely the single scummiest thing this game. You're asking a person there is a bandwagon on and on whom you don't have any case why you shouldn't join on the bandwagon. Simultaneously, you manage to combine extreme laziness, passive agressiveness, OMGUS and baseless voting into one ultra-scummy sentence. That's... I have no words.
(OOC, just for you.)
bah, that only holds true if I'd actually voted for him.
I'm picking a bit of cordiality between you two. Why did you ask him that question in that certain way?


Shinigami_King
"What is your take on Lenglon, and your views on those attacking her? What are you doing in scumhunting her?"


Captain Ford
"I've to ask. What purpose was this prod to our fellow zombie enthusiast? When prod means Vote."
zombie urist:
WTF is going on?
Unvote
Extend
Why did you unvote Lenglon?
And the purpose of shifting it to ToasteR?
And then this.
Ford
You did not answer my question--third chocolate quote. You evaded it.
Quote
How are you going to use your..immunity as a benefit to finding them bullies? How are you going to act when in school, hmm? Any difference?"
Linked for posterity because I'm really betting I've a lot to catch up later.


Toaster
Tiruin:  What's your read of the vote shenanigans of the near-day end?  Solifuge, same question.
"I have no response but confusion. I will try to get a re-read on that part and correlate it with earlier posts later. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to give my say on our principal's dismissal. So blargh.

"Total. Confusion. The shift from Nerjin//Lenglon was quite the kicker. And then everyone else jumped in because of ties.

"Also, I like your new avatar. So sleek and shiny."



NQT
"Dariush-yōgisha, all you have done all day is loudly insult people while other people massage your ego by saying that it's okay, that's just Dari-chan's way of talking, but from what I've seen you've yet to make a coherent case. How about some bully picks?"
Bully picks is all you're asking of him? Is all you've got after noticing all that on him? Uh huh. Why picks?

Why picks, at this time?


"So...with all that done, I'd just like to inform everyone ahead of time that I won't be available in the next hours because of personal stuff. Yep."

Medical Mission from Saturday ~4pm or so, GMT +8
Hopefully my conundrum with our connection would be fixed after then, still.


..Wait, just read up.
...Okay guys.  I think that would have been a Lenglon lynch if I was being a tight-ass.  But I do agree that a 24 hour extend is far too short and we've had plenty of activity.  How would everybody feel if I extended Day 1 to the end of Friday?  It would be June 7th at 11pm EST.
>_> Well. That still works.

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