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[USEC_OFFICER]

Same question for sidestepping. I don't see any reason why I'd try to dodge instead of shoot, unless I have something that lets me reload while I move.

Well ideally you'd never want to dodge at all and instead blast enemies before they can retaliate, but obviously that doesn't always happen. So dodging is a good idea if you're up against 1~2 guys and you have room to maneuver. Just dodge their attacks and then blast them while they recover. It's also definitely necessary for killing some really tough enemies and bosses too, since they have way too much HP to eliminate before they can fire. The Cyberdemon in particular is easy to defeat if you dodge, since he takes forever to reload. So yeah, dodging is somewhat situational, but it helps keep you safe and whole which is good in later levels when medikits and health pickups are rare.

That's weird, when I used it nothing ever happened.

You did use it when you could see a bunch of enemies, right? It's really obvious when it works...

The Arena Master didn't attack me either, he was really slow. Probably had something to do with my pistol build.

Lucky bastard... I generally can't kill him fast enough not to take a few shots. Though thankfully that map does have 4 berserk packs, and a chainsaw for you to play with. Even if your build isn't melee based, chainsaw + berserk packs will easily clear out the entire map. The Arena Master is weak in melee after all.

[pisskop]

The Arena Master didn't attack me either, he was really slow. Probably had something to do with my pistol build.

Lucky bastard... I generally can't kill him fast enough not to take a few shots. Though thankfully that map does have 4 berserk packs, and a chainsaw for you to play with. Even if your build isn't melee based, chainsaw + berserk packs will easily clear out the entire map. The Arena Master is weak in melee after all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

sidestepping diagonally twice will let you step out of the arc of the attack.  I think you have to be fairly fast, but otherwise thats fine.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Oh. Well with 4 berserk packs... It doesn't make too much of a difference I suppose. Something to think about for next time though.

[E. Albright]

One tip for new players, which is a general one and shouldn't be necessary (but oh-so-often is, even for people who should know better): your medkits and such aren't gonna help you when you're dead. Even after all these years, being a miserly packrat is a consistent self-handicap of mine - not just in this game, but in typical roguelike fashion, it's exacerbated here.

[EnigmaticHat]

What's the deal with sprinting? How does it work and when should I use it? Same question for sidestepping. I don't see any reason why I'd try to dodge instead of shoot, unless I have something that lets me reload while I move.

That's the MAIN reason, but it also really helps you stay alive if you run away.  Which in harder situations you'll be doing a lot if you play like me.  Sprinting also lets you kite enemies by being at the edge of their LoS.  So you see an enemy, you sprint out of LoS, shoot where you think it is, it moves into LoS, you back up, etc.

The basic strategy if you want to use a shotgun early (not even with skills mind you, shotguns can be useful without them early on), is if you get caught in the open you need to run back to any corner, and then start blind firing shotgun shots around the corner.  Since shotguns never miss, the out of sight accuracy penalty is meaningless and the shotgun's knockback will make enemies take 2-4x as many moves to reach you.  So you need to be able to get back to the corner, ergo sprinting and dodging.

Sprinting also lets you kite demons, which is hugely important earlygame.  This is sort of an advanced strategy (by which I mean you don't need it except on the two highest difficulties) but to be faster than demons with no speed boosts you need to sprint and take off your armor, which is important to know because the game will sometimes spawn "vaults" that contain 6+ demons which will rush you after you open the door.

Dodgemaster (which makes your first sidestep per enemy per turn 100%) and Fireangel (which makes you immune to splash(!)) totally changes sidestepping.  Now against certain enemy types (the "demon noble" archetype in particular) you can move just to re-position yourself with no concern about damage.  So its perfectly valid to just zigzag towards them until you're in point-blank and then beat them to death or blow them away.  You can also cause enemies to hit each other.

[Parsely]

The big problem for me is: how do I know if an enemy is about to attack me? It seems so unpredictable!

[EnigmaticHat]

Its literally random.  But for most enemies its pretty significant (at least 25%) and more than 50% chance to hit you if they do attack and you have no defenses, so given how important your health is its generally safe to assume that if a ranged enemy can see you, its going to attack you.  But yeah, unless you want to get out of LoS or you have a dodge focused build, attacking is better than sidestepping.

[Parsely]

Pretty much I'm not going to sidestep unless there's a corner really close by or I have shottymaster/gun kata.

[Draxis]

If you are faster than maybe .67s/move, you can easily memorise the pattern of your turns/enemy turns and take actions without risk, and then dodge when it's their turn to shoot.  A vital tactic for faster builds.

[Parsely]

I don't think it's that easy but.. I guess I could try again next time I play, but previously its always been a complete crapshoot as to whether or not he's going to decide to shoot.

[EnigmaticHat]

Pretty much I'm not going to sidestep unless there's a corner really close by or I have shottymaster/gun kata.

No, if you have dodgemaster and you're running away you'll sidestep all the time.  Its easily possible to run 10+ tiles to get to a corner with no chance of taking damage.  Sprinting with hellrunner also gives you pretty good odds, although you'll still take damage (plus, unless its restricted you'll always want dodgemaster if you have hellrunner).

I don't think it's that easy but.. I guess I could try again next time I play, but previously its always been a complete crapshoot as to whether or not he's going to decide to shoot.

What he means is that if you're going fast enough you can fire in between enemy turns, so it doesn't matter what they decide.  I've never tried that but i guess it could work.  Also when he said "move delay" I believe he was refering to both you move and shoot delay, which are separate.  Also enemies can be on different timers IRRC so it will only work versus one guy.

[Parsely]

No, if you have dodgemaster and you're running away you'll sidestep all the time.  Its easily possible to run 10+ tiles to get to a corner with no chance of taking damage.  Sprinting with hellrunner also gives you pretty good odds, although you'll still take damage (plus, unless its restricted you'll always want dodgemaster if you have hellrunner).

Oh you mean running away. That makes sense. Bleh, why move when I can just shootem. :<

I want to see an LP of someone who's good at this game.

[Dr Feelgood]

This thread made me try this game again. I managed to get the true ending on HMP. Malicious Blades is very good.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DoomGuy, level 9 Imp Lance Corporal Technician,
 nuked the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
 He survived 75412 turns and scored 146617 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 52 minutes and 37 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 431 out of 500 hellspawn. (86%)

 He saved himself once.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 2
  Levels completed : 2

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  UAC Bronze Badge
  UAC Silver Badge
  Longinus Gold Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ......................................................%...#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..................................................%.......#
  ......................................................%...#
  ..........................................................#
  ..................................................X%|.%...#
  ..................................................%}...%..#
  ...................................................||.....#
  ...............................................%..%%.%....#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 18/50   Experience 39977/9
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +9

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Technician

    Finesse          (Level 1)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 3)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Whizkid          (Level 1)
    Malicious Blades (Level 1)

  HR->Bru->HR->Bru->DM->Fin->MMB->Bru->WK->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [6] (OP)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   Longinus Spear (8d8)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (76%) (AP)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chainsword (8d2)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] double shotgun (9d3)x2 [0/2] (B1)
    [b] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1]
    [c] combat pistol (3d3) [15/15]
    [d] blue armor [2/2] (100%)
    [e] red armor [6/6] (100%) (P)
    [f] Lava Armor [4/4] (100%)
    [g] chainsaw (4d7) (P)
    [h] shotgun shell (x41)
    [i] rocket (x10)
    [j] small med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] phase device
    [p] homing phase device
    [q] bulk mod pack
    [r] steel boots [2/2] (100%) (AP)
    [s] protective boots [2/2] (100%)

[Caz]

I think I found a bug, or maybe I misunderstand something.

I killed the two shamblers at the armory and got a nano pack as a reward. Got the first level of whizkid so I could upgrade my super shotgun to nano-shrapnel using PPN mods. Killed the Cyberdemon, then got the second level of whizkid so I could mod the shotgun once more. No dice, apparently I still can't mod already-modded items, even though it's the whole point via the wiki (master assemblies are quite boring)

So... wat. Did I just waste a trait on nothing? I want my powered up nano-shrapnel shotgun >:l for the murdering.

[sambojin]

You have to have Whizkid 2 before you make an assembly if you want to put another modpack on it. Which is kind of a pity, but it stops almost every build tooling out their kit near endgame.

Just a PPN shotty probably would have been better.

Of course, now you've got WK2, you can mod and assemble all kinds of stuff. Go for the +A Tac boots if you find some spare mods. They're amazing.