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[TheWetSheep]

Alright, done reading! I actually thought more would stick out, but it was a bit of a hurried read.

My reads:

The Soldier/Onyxjew: Pretty strong town, mostly because of The Soldier. At the beginning of the game he was putting quite a bit of pressure on Remuthra, drawing attention to his scumslips. Correct me if this is WIFOM, but I doubt scum would put such large pressure on their buddy so near the beginning(The game had been going on for less than a day).

Borno/Quadressence: Null. Couldn't really get a read on Borno, and Quadressence hasn't posted yet.

NQT: Null leaning scum. Admittedly, he was on FD's lynch, but in another game he recently said he was "experimenting". Perhaps now he's experimenting with bussing?

Spaghetti7: Null leaning town. Had some strange answers to RVS questions. There was a lot of miscommunication around them. Was pressured a lot by FD in post #240. Being the only non-IC that hasn't been replaced, he has had a lot more chance to drop consistent scum-tells, but I haven't seen to much of that.

Shakerag: Null leaning scum. Hasn't done a whole lot apart from ICing, and occasionally gave weak reasoning(see more below). I also somewhat agree with NQT's suspicions of both IC's, even if I find him suspicious. Didn't vote - is this scummy?

IronyOwl: Null leaning scum. Also hasn't done much, although he admitted he's not really able to be active. Passively says "I'm suspicious of everyone"(post 351), and isn't exerting a huge amount of pressure on anybody.

Shakerag:

Doing a re-read myself, but notquitethere *is* a bit suspicious for the whole "rah rah I'm town go town" thing as IronyOwl noted. 

This reasoning seems a bit weak for an IC. I realize it's just a FoS, but still, I don't see stating yourself as town as a scumtell.

Not enough time, more questions and such later.

[TheWetSheep]

OK, some questions:

Quadressence: What kind of experience, if any, have you had in Mafia?

NQT: What do you think of my idea that you are experimenting in bussing?

Shakerag: Why didn't you vote?

IronyOwl: Sort of an RVS question but quite relevant in "Extension Mafia". Say someone you had a strong town read on was replaced by someone who you felt was acting quite scummy. What would be your total read on them?

Onyxjew:

NWT Why do you keep mentioning that you are Town?

Do you think saying you're town is a scumtell?

[Quadressence]

Quadressence:  Hello and welcome.  Please do read through the game so far and give us all your reads on the currently living players.

*The sleuthette enters stage left, sporting a checkered cap and coat and a rather unwieldy magnifying glass. She pulls out a list she had tucked into her pocket and reads off the names.*

    TheWetSheep
    Onyxjew994
    Captain Ford - Healer Doctor
    Quadressence
    notquitethere
    Spaghetti7
    Flying Dice - Cabal Illusionist Godfather
    Shakerag
    IronyOwl

*The sleuthette pulls out her tape recorder and begins talking.*

As I review the evidence and reread yesterday's transcripts, I cannot help but wonder why I have this burden (Atlas, I think I understand!) as solving this case, if I can call it that, falls short of my ever-reaching prowess and godlike skills. Instead, dear diary, let me recant to you a truly outstanding individual (Yes diary, OUTSTANDING!)

notquitethere, as he calls himself.

*She pauses, re-examining the evidence, and then continues.*

For some time, I had been unsure. He had been quiet, lurked in the background, made no moves. Quite the quandary why I quickly quip that his quirks are queer.

*The sleuthette points a finger toward the suspect.*

Quit your quest! But, a query, a quiz, and mayhaps a qualm to quell, to quench, my quill.

Notquitethere! Explain your vote on Flying Dice! Of course, you think, 'But that is the enemy, surely, you jest!' On the con(trary), I suggest that it be an elaborate ruse, a masquerade! You intend to lynch your partner and enjoy town status. Adequate, but you explained your vote too well, too much, to have it go unnoticed.

There's more! This morning, you exempt yourself from suspicion not on the grounds that you believe yourself to be innocent, but that there would be no way for scum to bus themselves. Another nail in the coffin for you, as there can be no way for you to prove this except by being scum, which would then make it grounds for a lie.

*The sleuthette smiles, her eyes sparkling, and puts the magnifying glass to her eye, investigating notquitethere.*

You indirectly compliment the scum team when you comment on the dead cop, and also cheer the town on, both I find rather unappealing and incredibly suspicious.

And then, I quote

I- I think we've got it!

this squib. So nervous, but for what?

*The sleuthette turns and begins pacing.*

For now, though, even if I find you suspicious, I must say your case is of quality, and therefore it must be examined.

Worth noting is that IronyOwl indirectly disputes the bussing debacle, instead of dissecting it directly. Defensive, really, inducing no decent discussion. I deduce that he intends to redirect without provoking notquitethere, and the best way to do that would be to simply not vote him.

Quadressentially, he'll have to vote notquitethere eventually. It's merely a matter of time, unless he can distract himself elsewhere (I, of course, expect myself!)

*The sleuthette spins on her feet.*

IronyOwl.

I was offering supporting reasons, as I know what counts as a burden of proof for myself may not count as such for other. As it happens, I was absolutely correct.

Ah, but we don't know that, do we? If I'd said that Remuthra's name started with an R, and R was pretty close to S, and S stood for scum, I would have been "absolutely correct" also.

For that matter, we still don't know how well your theory's going to hold up for the other scum, to say nothing of how correct those supporting reasons are/will be. If your theory was completely correct we'd just be lynching whoever's had the second most votes and be done with it, wouldn't we?
[/quote]
You seem skeptical of his supporting case, so somehow you seem to suggest that any case involving nonsense would be equivalent. But, I disagree. Sure, the case was overloaded, but that did not make the case wrong. Instead, you'd want to argue bussing, but you're not. You're saying the case could not have been correct, but a scum would indeed have a correct case! (AHA!)

Perhaps, you can try again, and we'll see how it goes.

*The sleuthette tucks away her magnifying glass.*

Quadressence: What kind of experience, if any, have you had in Mafia?

I once pretended to be a Mafia boss, where I broke everyone's legs that owed me money. My friends were none too pleased about it, but we have made it an inside joke, especially when lending money. As for the core game mechanics here, I once played an advanced version of Clue as Miss Scarlett, in which I ruthlessly gunned down my fellow players before dueling to the death with Colonel Mustard with swords. In the end, I was skewered, though we found out later that I had killed the true murderer (Mr. Green) on accident while he was talking to his wife. >:3 Kekeke

Aaaaaaand, that was a lot. :X

[Shakerag]

The Soldier/Onyxjew: Pretty strong town, mostly because of The Soldier. At the beginning of the game he was putting quite a bit of pressure on Remuthra, drawing attention to his scumslips. Correct me if this is WIFOM, but I doubt scum would put such large pressure on their buddy so near the beginning(The game had been going on for less than a day).

[Yes, that's WIFOM.  Because then scum *could* put pressure on thier buddy so near the beginning, and then you wonder if they're doing that because you're expecting them not to do that and so on and so forth.  As a side note, in practice, such a thing is highly unlikely in a BM, but stranger things have happened.  But either way, you can't rule out the possibility.]

Shakerag: Null leaning scum. Hasn't done a whole lot apart from ICing, and occasionally gave weak reasoning(see more below). I also somewhat agree with NQT's suspicions of both IC's, even if I find him suspicious. Didn't vote - is this scummy?

[Answering in a general way, is someone scummy for not voting?  I'd say that depends.  If a player is drilling at someone else and calling them scum up and down and doesn't vote, that's a bit odd.  Likewise, if someone -never- votes, that's cause for concern as well.  Do the circumstances look odd about the person not voting?  Is there indication the person should be voting?  Always try to look for reasons for things.]

Shakerag:

Doing a re-read myself, but notquitethere *is* a bit suspicious for the whole "rah rah I'm town go town" thing as IronyOwl noted. 

This reasoning seems a bit weak for an IC. I realize it's just a FoS, but still, I don't see stating yourself as town as a scumtell.

And who says you need solid reasoning for a suspicion?  That aside, stating yourself as town isn't a scumtell.  Doing it repeatedly and in a "hey guys look at me I'm so town I shit vanilla" way ... it can make you look like you're more concerned about portraying a town image over finding scum.

Shakerag: Why didn't you vote?

Wasn't convinced that FD was scum (at the time, obviously).  Voting for CF or NQT would have made a tie, which is a Bad Thing.  Voting for anyone else wouldn't have made a difference.  Also, a rather hearty dollop of "being too busy to Mafia".


Quadressence:  Okay, so you're voting IronyOwl for what reason(s) exactly?

[Onyxjew944]

Shakerag

Onyxjew994:  Reading back through your posts, it seems like you haven't been heavily invested in scumhunting.  I see you ask a question here, a question there, and even your vote on FD just looked like a pressure vote that stayed on until day end.  While I certainly saw The Soldier as pretty solid town, your actions (or lack thereof) have been deteriorating that feeling.  Give me your top two scumpicks and why they're at the top.

I've been rather inactive because of a certain RL tonnage increase. Ever had life just suddenly dump a set of concrete walls around you in every direction? Or, with less metaphor, a large number of totally unconnected projects that just happen to be assigned at the same time and are due in roughly the same timeframe? Yes. That one. I'll be trying to do a bit more this weekend. Starting now, actually.

Top two three scumpicks not in any considerable order,

Spoiler: Prelude (click to show/hide)

Now, every person on this list has a few common reasons, so I will list them here.

• Being in the spotlight frequently
• Being negatively called out frequently

Note, there is a difference there. Namely, being in the spotlight means being involved in heavy scumhunting and/or defense, while being in it negatively implies doing one, the other, or both badly. I'll elaborate below.

Shakerag

-Empty for now, filling later-

IronyOwl

-Empty for now, filling later-

NotQuiteThere

-Empty for now, filling later-


Sorry about not giving anything more substantial than my suspicions at the moment, but I am pressed for time. I have a D&D game to attend within the hour. And before I am riddled with "Oh my, three wonderful choices and I only have one vote." sarcasm, I will be back with a case. Save your pithy commentary for the debate floor.

TheWetSheep

Onyxjew:

NWT Why do you keep mentioning that you are Town?

Do you think saying you're town is a scumtell?

It is more of a Null-leaning scum tell. By the light of the moon I hate this vocabulary. It's practically a second damn language with all its WIFOM, busing, and LYLO... I digress, it is a scum-ish-tell because why would a townie blatantly call themselves town? They have better and more important duties than cementing their place as town, namely, eroding that exact same masking foundation from all others. Or, with less flowery language, scumhunting. Defense is important, but you can see I am fully capable of defending myself without even once calling myself town throughout this entire thread. Calling me town is everyone else's job, mine is to find the last scum.

-snip-

My, that was quite the opening statement you have there. I think you'll do just fine here, just fine. But I would like you to answer TheWetSheep's question. Or, as could be the case, clarify. I didn't really understand your meaning in that puddle of RP at the bottom of your post. You made a literal interpretation joke, possibly bathos, and a reference to a game similar to Mafia but never actually mentioned experience in Mafia. Care to elaborate?

[Tiruin]

{I love the replacement list here }

[TheWetSheep]

Shakerag:

The Soldier/Onyxjew: Pretty strong town, mostly because of The Soldier. At the beginning of the game he was putting quite a bit of pressure on Remuthra, drawing attention to his scumslips. Correct me if this is WIFOM, but I doubt scum would put such large pressure on their buddy so near the beginning(The game had been going on for less than a day).

[Yes, that's WIFOM.  Because then scum *could* put pressure on thier buddy so near the beginning, and then you wonder if they're doing that because you're expecting them not to do that and so on and so forth.  As a side note, in practice, such a thing is highly unlikely in a BM, but stranger things have happened.  But either way, you can't rule out the possibility.]

OK, I'll leave it at "it's likely to be a town-tell", especially since this was The Soldier's first game.

Quadressence: Why did you outline a whole bunch of reasons for suspicion of NQT, then one reason for suspicion of Shakerag, then vote Shakerag? It seems from your post you're more suspicious of NQT. Also, please give a list of every player, along with reads.

[Quadressence]

Quadressence:  Okay, so you're voting IronyOwl for what reason(s) exactly?

*The sleuthette closes her eyes, extending a shushing finger to Shakerag.*

Essentially, as an IC, I expect more from him. If I implore IronyOwl to actually act like he needs to do something instead of backing away, he can and will do so. Instead, he is trying to redirect notquitethere without scumhunting. There should be no possible need to play passively provided IronyOwl were town.

Quadressence: Why did you outline a whole bunch of reasons for suspicion of NQT, then one reason for suspicion of Shakerag, then vote Shakerag? It seems from your post you're more suspicious of NQT. Also, please give a list of every player, along with reads.

*A cellphone rings, playing The Girl from Ipanema. The sleuthette answers.*

"Uh huh. Gotcha."

*She hangs up.*

IronyOwl, not Shakerag. notquitethere was who I found suspicious, until I came upon IronyOwl's quarrel with him who piqued my interests. I also read through notquitethere's arguments, to which I agreed, and reasoned that if I found IronyOwl to be equally suspicious to quaint notquitethere, I qualify that as quite quirky, and assumed a town IC would not act so queer.

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

[Shakerag]

Ever had life just suddenly dump a set of concrete walls around you in every direction?

You have no idea.  [If you're busy, we understand.  Do just keep us informed that you're unable to make time, rather than lurking like a scumbag if you will ]

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

As a player?  I'd want to lynch you for being question-dodging scum.  As an IC?  I'd want to liberally apply the business end of a shovel to your temples because it looks like you're too lazy to read through the game you're replacing into and get a good feel for the other players you're playing with. 

Of course, that's only if you didn't answer.


[And I'm out for the weekend again, kids.  Post if you can.  See you on Monday.]

[TheWetSheep]

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

I'd think you were unhelpful town at best and obvious scum at worst. I realize this is your first game, but having everyone's list of reads is vital to learning who is scum. The only team who benefits from withholding information of that type is scum.

[Quadressence]

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

As a player?  I'd want to lynch you for being question-dodging scum.  As an IC?  I'd want to liberally apply the business end of a shovel to your temples because it looks like you're too lazy to read through the game you're replacing into and get a good feel for the other players you're playing with. 

Of course, that's only if you didn't answer.

*The sleuthette smirks.*

I can read through the game and not give you my reads at the same time. If anything, you're the lazy one. You didn't point out how that would make me scum. You only said that it'd make me lazy for not reading, which I did, so it doesn't, and that being lazy would somehow make me scum, which is pretty unspecific. Though, that itself doesn't make sense, since scum are hardly lazy, given they need to keep tangled webs woven in their heads. Lazy scum would simply lurk. Lazy lurkers, then, would all be scum.

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

I'd think you were unhelpful town at best and obvious scum at worst. I realize this is your first game, but having everyone's list of reads is vital to learning who is scum. The only team who benefits from withholding information of that type is scum.

Beside the fact that you made an impossible comparison (I can't be obvious scum at worst, since if I were obvious, I wouldn't be town at best.), explain how you learn scum from having my list of reads. You say it does, but not why, not how. I don't think you even know. And to conform to some modus operandi without sufficient reason is lazy.

*Fire glows in her eyes.*

Anyone else want some?

[TheWetSheep]

Quadressence:

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

I'd think you were unhelpful town at best and obvious scum at worst. I realize this is your first game, but having everyone's list of reads is vital to learning who is scum. The only team who benefits from withholding information of that type is scum.

Beside the fact that you made an impossible comparison (I can't be obvious scum at worst, since if I were obvious, I wouldn't be town at best.), explain how you learn scum from having my list of reads. You say it does, but not why, not how. I don't think you even know. And to conform to some modus operandi without sufficient reason is lazy.

It's not laziness, I just assumed you'd be able to realize how having everybody's opinions on everybody else is important. Here's how:

1. We can critique each other for better overall reads. If I think somebody is scum for an invalid reason, but don't share my reasons, nobody can correct me, and I'll go on suspecting that person.
2. It's helpful to you so that, when you eventually vote someone, we don't accuse you of voting without reason.
3. It's helpful to us because you can point out scummy/towny things we miss.
4. If you are scum, there's more chance to find a scumslip, since scum know the alignment of everyone and may therefore give something away in their reads.
5. Town benefit from having as much information and opinion as possible out there. As said above, only scum would want to withhold this kind of information.

Also, I apologize for the logical error in my comparison, but does it have any effect on my argument?

[Captain Ford]

*The sleuthette enters stage left, sporting a checkered cap and coat and a rather unwieldy magnifying glass. She pulls out a list she had tucked into her pocket and reads off the names.*

Oh my god, a roleplayer.

AWESOME.

*returns to being dead*

[Quadressence]

Quadressence:

As for my reads on everyone else, what would you do if I didn't answer? :1

I'd think you were unhelpful town at best and obvious scum at worst. I realize this is your first game, but having everyone's list of reads is vital to learning who is scum. The only team who benefits from withholding information of that type is scum.

Beside the fact that you made an impossible comparison (I can't be obvious scum at worst, since if I were obvious, I wouldn't be town at best.), explain how you learn scum from having my list of reads. You say it does, but not why, not how. I don't think you even know. And to conform to some modus operandi without sufficient reason is lazy.

It's not laziness, I just assumed you'd be able to realize how having everybody's opinions on everybody else is important. Here's how:

1. We can critique each other for better overall reads. If I think somebody is scum for an invalid reason, but don't share my reasons, nobody can correct me, and I'll go on suspecting that person.
2. It's helpful to you so that, when you eventually vote someone, we don't accuse you of voting without reason.
3. It's helpful to us because you can point out scummy/towny things we miss.
4. If you are scum, there's more chance to find a scumslip, since scum know the alignment of everyone and may therefore give something away in their reads.
5. Town benefit from having as much information and opinion as possible out there. As said above, only scum would want to withhold this kind of information.

Also, I apologize for the logical error in my comparison, but does it have any effect on my argument?

*The sleuthette pulls out a pair of glasses and puts them on. She pushes them up with her index finger.*

No. That's why I said beside. Now, beside that, let's continue.

While I understand where you are coming from, your arguments are flawed in that anything I say can be used against me. Hello! We're on a forum! This list is merely one way with which to withdraw information. I suggest that we switch your statements to something slightly simpler: I do not want to go along with the group's preferred method of getting information.

*She crosses her legs.*

And why should I? Because we are groomed to be sheep for the shepherd? Do you want me on all fours, baaing? I'm not a whore.

Instead, I suggest a blossoming. *She pulls a bouquet a flowers from her sleeves.* A transition. *She snaps her fingers, suddenly dressed as a magician.* Magic! *She pulls a nickel out from behind TheWetSheep's ear.* Change.

*She pulls out a wand and waves it around a bit.*

I'm not suggesting anarchy, insanity, lawlessness. Simply... compliance. Now, this is a rant, and I've accomplished nothing by explaining, so I'll get back on topic.

*She snaps her fingers, returning to her original outfit.*

I have no information at this time that I wish to divulge. None of it is of any use to anyone but me, because I write in scribbles.

*She takes off her glasses and starts cleaning them.*

Right now, I find IronyOwl to be suspicious and eagerly await his reply. I also find notquitethere to be suspicious, but to a lesser degree than IronyOwl. I believe I can try to be more specific as to why on each of them, but I might begin mincing words, so you'll have to excuse me if I do.

IronyOwl is an IC, meaning he should be held at a higher standard than those that are not IC. To this matter, I find his handling of being accused by notquitethere to be unsatisfactory. He has not responded well, and is simply waiting to redirect notquitethere's attention, while also making snide remarks toward notquitethere. He seems to think he can push off having to accuse notquitethere if he can push him away toward someone else, or simply wait for him to switch. Looking at interactions from the past day showed little interaction between IronyOwl and Flying Dice/Reth...Remura(?) in an attempt to distance.

*The sleuthette takes a deep breath.*

That seems pretty good for now.

[Tiruin]

*The sleuthette enters stage left, sporting a checkered cap and coat and a rather unwieldy magnifying glass. She pulls out a list she had tucked into her pocket and reads off the names.*

Oh my god, a roleplayer.

AWESOME.

*returns to being dead*

Hey, I was like that and you were fine with it :/

{I mean, judging from discernment, there's nothing wrong in analyzing her posts except for the added imagination aspect }

*returns to the peanut gallery*