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[smjjames]

I have to say that, as reluctant as I am to touch Germany's territorial integrity (their federal model is a nice example of something that can work) it would probably work best if Bavaria was independent. They're at least as different from the rest of Germany as Austria, anyway.

What about Saxony? Thuringia? Cleves? City state of Cologne?

[Sheb]

You're just giving names you saw as HRE minors in EUIV, right?

[smjjames]

You're just giving names you saw as HRE minors in EUIV, right?

You got me there, yep lol

Wasn't Cologne pretty much a city state in it's own right though?

[Owlbread]

What about Saxony? Thuringia? Cleves? City state of Cologne?

You can divide Germany along numerous cultural and linguistic lines like any other state. There's less demand/urgency for it though than, say, the division of France because Germany enjoys a federal model that works reasonably well. France on the other hand is actively stifling its constituent nations through its bizarre system of local government and oppressive language policies.

[Sheb]

Well, actually you had two polity named Cologne: the Free Imperial City of Cologne (pretty much a city-state from 1288 onward) and the Electorate of Cologne, which is the EUIV state, was ruled by the Archbishopric of Cologne and didn't include the City of Cologne.

[RedKing]

Not to mention Germans don't call it Cologne. 

The funny thing is that the stereotype of Germany (in the United States, at least) is very much that of Bavaria: portly men in lederhosen drinking beer and dancing to oompah with buxom blond Frauleinen serving them more beer.

Which is doubly odd considering that nearly 20% of Americans (and probably a plurality of white Americans) are descended from German stock, most of whom came from regions other than Bavaria. I always find it a bit offensive myself.

[Loud Whispers]

Billions of pounds wiped from value of Scottish firms after yes vote leads independence poll.

The pound is also not doing well for value. Why would an independent Scotland want the pound and not the euro anyways? No one seems to like the idea of risking the sterling over a nation apart from Britain and the EU would welcome another nation state adopting the Euro with welcome arms and indeed would be breaking a precedent by doing anything but.

Sushma Swaraj responded to a question about next week's vote in parliament with note of horror. “”God forbid!” she replied.
After officials had a word with the External Affairs minister, she quickly corrected herself, adding it was “up to Scotland to decide”.

Adorable.

[mainiac]

The pound is also not doing well for value. Why would an independent Scotland want the pound and not the euro anyways?

Because the vast bulk of their trade will be done with the UK and currency differences would increase the costs associated with that trade.

[Loud Whispers]

Because the vast bulk of their trade will be done with the UK and currency differences would increase the costs associated with that trade.

That sounds like a preferable alternative to a depreciated sterling though, and does simplify things a great deal in the event of independence.

[Helgoland]

I'd totally be up for an independent Rhineland, with Köln/Cologne as our capital. Just keep open the borders - I still want to visit Lower Saxony and all our Western neighbors, after all.

Helgoland, that would cause a whole bunch of problems, like the fact that when people flee a place because they're in danger, they don't really want to spend 6 month waiting for the embassy to process the paperwork. Also, international law force us to accept legitimate refugees when they show up. Finally, having done some activism related to refugees in Belgium, I don't trust our asylum institution (whose main goal seems to send as many people back as possible to please xenophobic voters) so I prefer to have them operate closer, where activists and human right lawyers can more effectively monitor them.

Having such refugee processing done in North Africa (where you already have camps full of wannabee migrants) I could be okay with though.

They'd have to flee into neighboring regions first, anyway, so they could presumably apply there. But you may have a point: Embassies in unimportant (from our perspective of course, eurocentrism ho!) countries may simply be too small. How about a couple of major 'collection points' in various regions? These could then be monitored independently and effectively.
I don't quite understand the bit about legitimate refugees - we do accept them, after all, if they conform to our procedure. So they'd probably be shipped back to Africa immediately and the politely shown the nearest of our immigration institutions.

[RedKing]

Billions of pounds wiped from value of Scottish firms after yes vote leads independence poll.

The pound is also not doing well for value. Why would an independent Scotland want the pound and not the euro anyways? No one seems to like the idea of risking the sterling over a nation apart from Britain and the EU would welcome another nation state adopting the Euro with welcome arms and indeed would be breaking a precedent by doing anything but.

Sushma Swaraj responded to a question about next week's vote in parliament with note of horror. “”God forbid!” she replied.
After officials had a word with the External Affairs minister, she quickly corrected herself, adding it was “up to Scotland to decide”.

Adorable.

Not as adorable as this gem:

However its rival, Die Zeit took a different tack under a headline “ No tea for the English enemy”.

It said: “Scotland is gripped by an aggresive ethnic self centeredness which wants to subordinate everything foreign.”

Coming from a German newspaper, that is droll beyond belief. History much?

The gist of the Telegraph article seems to be "OMG the rest of the world really wants Scotland to stop, why aren't they listening??" when in fact the countries they cite all have their own breakaway regions that might be encouraged by an actually successful independence movement.

[Helgoland]

That was written by a pro-Union resident of Scotland. I read the article - it was horrible. It's a shame the Zeit has gone down to such a level; traditionally it's the paper of the social-liberal intelligentsia.

[10ebbor10]

The pound is also not doing well for value. Why would an independent Scotland want the pound and not the euro anyways? No one seems to like the idea of risking the sterling over a nation apart from Britain and the EU would welcome another nation state adopting the Euro with welcome arms and indeed would be breaking a precedent by doing anything but.

Scotland doesn't meet the requirements for joining the Euro.

1. Inflation no more than 1.5% higher than the lowest levels seen in Euro countries.
2. Budget deficit no more than 3%
3. Debt to GDP ratio no higher than 60%
4. 2 year membership of the ERM II membership
5. Long term interest yields no more than 2% higher than the rates for the countries with the slowest inflation.

Scotland might fail 1, could fail 2*, probably going to fail 3*, fails number 4, and depending on all the other stuff, might fail 5 as well.

And after Greece, they're not going to make exceptions.

*depending on how indie negotiations work.

[Helgoland]

Countries with the lowest inflation are probably the Eurozone ones - and Greece is one of them...
If the first part of that sentence is right, I wouldn't worry too much about 5).

[timferius]

Hmm, if the vote is no in the end, can we trade the UK Scotland for Quebec?