Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[timferius]

I would like to point out that we still have the Queen plastered everywhere despite being across a rather vast body of water from her. I need to show my passport AND buy a plane ticket to visit. I mean, she's more of a figurehead here than anything else, but her representative in our parliament does still wield some power.

The Queen's representative in our parliament will be the Chancellor of Scotland, I believe. A resurrected title from our time as an independent state.

Sounds rather similar to the Governor General here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Do you think the Conservatives would really want to make their closest neighbour, one of two in the world with which they would share a land border, into some kind of enemy just out of sheer spite that we had the gall to become independent?

Yes.

But if that's not sufficient for you, I'll bring up that right-wing thought in this vein tends to focus upon creating externalities and blaming them for your problems. Independent Scotland is going to be sourced as the original cause of everything bad that happens to the UK once it's left, be it directly or indirectly. I live under Republican governance, trust me, this is how it works.

I know I'm guilty of relying on the assumption that the world is full of rational actors, and UKIP are not rational, but I just can't see them making life that much harder. There would be no reason to do so.

The UKIP are themselves, and the Conservatives idealize Margaret Thatcher. Do I even need to say anything more? It's a hawkfest all the way down.

[Dutchling]

Are you saying you think the majority of Scots will flee to the UK after a Yes vote?

No, not at all. I'm saying they'll have British citizenship just like the Jamaicans, Indians, Pakistanis etc.

You mean they still have British citizenship?

I thought it was like the Netherlands and Suriname, where roughly half of the Surinamese population migrated to the Netherlands prior to independence, because they'd lose (easy) access after independence.

[andrea]

They may decide to treat scotland badly, so that their threats still have a meaning the next time a part of UK wats to secede.
If they say "oh. Well, we didn't intimidate you, so lets hold hands and forget the past", they can't play the 'you will lose trade, citizenship,travel rights etc' card again.

[Owlbread]

You mean they still have British citizenship?

I thought it was like the Netherlands and Suriname, where roughly half of the Surinamese population migrated to the Netherlands prior to independence, because they'd lose (easy) access after independence.

It's a British thing that if you're born a British subject, whether that's in the Isles or elsewhere in the Empire (such as Jamaica or Pakistan and what have you) they won't lose that if their colonial government declares independence. People born in an independent Jamaica whose parents are not British subjects are obviously not British citizens, but people born in Jamaica before the 1960s are.

They may decide to treat scotland badly, so that their threats still have a meaning the next time a part of UK wats to secede.
If they say "oh. Well, we didn't intimidate you, so lets hold hands and forget the past", they can't play the 'you will lose trade, citizenship,travel rights etc' card again.

I think this is just something that requires waiting-and-seeing. The 2015 general election will probably decide how smooth a ride we are going to get in that respect. I know the Conservatives and UKIP and now Labour are a hawkfest all the way down, and as MSH has rightly said there is a good chance we will be blamed for most that goes wrong (and will go wrong with great certainty) in the UK post-Yes vote, but I am sure that their own self interest will be enough to keep them in check.

[Dutchling]

How crucial is the "colonial" clause?

[Owlbread]

How crucial is the "colonial" clause?

I don't know if there is a "colonial clause", I just said "colonial government" but I could have said Provincial. I believe the Irish were able to apply for British subject status under the Ireland Acts in the 20th century after they became independent, but they were leaving the Commonwealth as well.

[Dutchling]

Sky News Scotland Megamix

[scriver]

I'm not sure how England is going to be show to exercise any kind of "hard border" when Scotland will (hopefully) still be part of the EU and Schengen and thus have the ability to travel and work in England as much as they'd please. Denying them "British passports" would be a symbolic gesture at most, and pretty much only affect the people who still care about the UK.

[Dutchling]

Hey, British-EU border controls are pretty strict. I had to put my bag in an x-ray machine and show my ID to some dude

Only on the way out though. Not sure about the logic there.

[Sheb]

The UK is not part of the Schengen area. As for the x-ray machine, it's more of an airplane/train safety thing that border control.

[Dutchling]

It was a ferry. Didn't have to do the same on the Dutch side though.

[scriver]

Ah, right. Another of their exceptions.

[Darvi]

I'm still impressed how you can fit half a continent into a town of barely over a thousand people.

Wait I think I did this joke already.

[MonkeyHead]

You mean they still have British citizenship?

I thought it was like the Netherlands and Suriname, where roughly half of the Surinamese population migrated to the Netherlands prior to independence, because they'd lose (easy) access after independence.

It's a British thing that if you're born a British subject, whether that's in the Isles or elsewhere in the Empire (such as Jamaica or Pakistan and what have you) they won't lose that if their colonial government declares independence. People born in an independent Jamaica whose parents are not British subjects are obviously not British citizens, but people born in Jamaica before the 1960s are.

They may decide to treat scotland badly, so that their threats still have a meaning the next time a part of UK wats to secede.
If they say "oh. Well, we didn't intimidate you, so lets hold hands and forget the past", they can't play the 'you will lose trade, citizenship,travel rights etc' card again.

I think this is just something that requires waiting-and-seeing. The 2015 general election will probably decide how smooth a ride we are going to get in that respect. I know the Conservatives and UKIP and now Labour are a hawkfest all the way down, and as MSH has rightly said there is a good chance we will be blamed for most that goes wrong (and will go wrong with great certainty) in the UK post-Yes vote, but I am sure that their own self interest will be enough to keep them in check.

If England is a dick to Scotland in the event of independence, it will probably only serve to cause NI and Wales to distance itself from England further, possibly driving up sentiment for a further split. I have been undecided until now on the yes/no issue, as none of the arguments raised really appeal nor apply to me as someone not Scottish or living in Scotland, but the "no" campaign has been terrible and negative, and my patriotic streak wants Scotland so badly to vote yes. There appears to be the beginnings of a small murmur here in Wales, as people seemingly get behind the Yes idea for the Scots. This murmur might actually grow into a push for our own referendum if Scotland goes "yes", but unlike Scotland I can see us opting for further devolution (which has been the main body of discussion in relation to Senedd powers) rather than true succession, unless England plays the dick role as mentioned above.