Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[scriver]

It's as much bollocks as they say it would be for Scotland. There's nothing in the EU that would say Catalonia would be excluded

There's Spain in the EU.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Edited for purpose of deliverance of oneliner

[Owlbread]

Yes, but is it in Spain's interests to exclude Catalonia?

[10ebbor10]

It certainly is in Spain's interests to sabotage any Catalonian attempt to become independent. Blocking preparatory phases could very well be one of these things.

And as the US shutdown shows, these mutual stand-offs won't always work well.

[XXSockXX]

Do not worry, I am going to create a Scottish independence thread within the next week or so, or at least when the time is right. That will divert any such traffic away from this noble thread in the future.

No, I didn't mean it like that. You talk a lot about Scottish independence and I find it interesting but wouldn't hear much about it otherwise.
I don't think a new thread is needed, if you don't want one, that's a topic that belongs here.

It certainly is in Spain's interests to sabotage any Catalonian attempt to become independent. Blocking preparatory phases could very well be one of these things.

Yeah, that's probably it. Catalonian independence would have a big economical impact on Spain, plus they have other separatist movements, so they try to not let things go that way.

[Owlbread]

I think as time goes on and things build up, maybe a thread will be necessary, but I suppose for the next while or so I can keep it here.

[Sheb]

Yeah, I'm totally okay with you staying here. As far as Spain goes, their interest would be making an independent Catalonia's life miserable to keep the Basque in check. Although I guess they'd be under a lot of pressure from the rest of the EU to let them in.

But now, I have a question: what if Scotland argues that it is a successor state of the UK, just like the rUK. Both would have equal right to stay within the EU.

[scriver]

Yeah, I'm totally okay with you staying here. As far as Spain goes, their interest would be making an independent Catalonia's life miserable to keep the Basque in check. Although I guess they'd be under a lot of pressure from the rest of the EU to let them in.

To keep the Basque in check? No. Catalonia is the economic engine of Spain - Madrid would want to make them as miserable as possible to keep them in Spain. Pais Vasco is basically a footnote in comparison.

And basically every important country in the EU has at least one region with separatist inclinations. Except Germany, but we already know that Germany knows how to play ball. Unless Madrid goes all violent, the EU is going to back them on this. An really, that's what they've been doing so far.

[Sheb]

Spain may threaten nastiness to discourage Catalonia from leaving, but if Catalonia leaves and call Spain's bluff, what benefits would Spain get from making Catalonia's live miserable? A large chunk of their economy would still depend on trade with Catalonia, so they'd shoot themselves in the foot.

[scriver]

Prestige, and getting Catalonia back.

[Darvi]

*implying people are rational actors*

[Sheb]

Prestige from being dicks? And if you think you can get a country back in your fold by imposing trade sanctions and acting like a dick, you've missed the current going-on in Ukraine.

Speaking of Ukraine, Yanukovich announced he'll sign the Eastern Partnership. Soft power indeed, I wish I could be there the next time Van Rompuy ad Putin gets into the same room. :p

[Helgoland]

Except Germany, but we already know that Germany knows how to play ball.

What do you mean? We're certainly not going to take back our Eastern possessions by force...

[Sheb]

It depends how you define a "major country" in the EU though. France's separatist movements are pretty minor, and Poland don't have one AFAIK.

[Dutchling]

It depends how you define a "major country" in the EU though. France's separatist movements are pretty minor, and Poland don't have one AFAIK.

You obviously don't play Europa Universalis enough.

[scriver]

Prestige from being dicks?

That's generally how people act to get Prestige points, yes. But Europa Universalis aside, you're misunderstanding me - it's not that they would get prestige from it but because they lost face (and a whole lot of money) when Catalonia left.

And if you think you can get a country back in your fold by imposing trade sanctions and acting like a dick, you've missed the current going-on in Ukraine.

I think you're underestimating the power of "sure, we weren't our own state, but at least we had a functioning economy". And you can't just see it from a post-partum perspective, but must also consider Madrid threatening with this kind of stuff in order to paint a bleak future and sway the general opinion.