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Author Topic: Which martial art is best?  (Read 17452 times)

EnigmaticHat

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2012, 11:12:10 pm »

Don't get me wrong, experienced martial artists can be dangerous, as I'm sure countless muggers have found out.

Unless we're talking about movies, I'd tentatively place the number of muggers defeated by kung fu well within the countable range.

My evidence is anecdotal, but I have heard quite a few stories.  It comes up on the news from time to time, or youtube if there happens to be someone with a video phone around to record it.  The best one I've read was a blind judo champion who wrestled a mugger to the ground.  My karate teacher also had a story or two.  Although, one of those stories was about a black belt he knew who got attacked by three guys while he was heading to the subway, beat the shit out of all of them, then got sent to the hospital when one of them pulled out a gun.  So you might be right.

The thing is, there's a certain kind of black belt that's gotten far enough to earn the belt, but who's understanding of fighting is largely theoretical and who would be beaten by an experienced but untrained opponent.  Then there's the people who are really immersed in martial arts, and they kick all kinds of ass.  Still not anywhere near kung fu movie levels of ass though.

I'm rapidly discovering that ass is the best possible unit of measurement.
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Thecard

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2012, 11:30:01 pm »

The best one I've read was a blind judo champion who wrestled a mugger to the ground. 
I remember hearing about that!  That was awesome!

I'm rapidly discovering that ass is the best possible unit of measurement.
I've thought so for a little while now.  I actually had my own system of measurements once, and an ass-ton was one of them.  But, that was a while ago, I've forgotten most of them.
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I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
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Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2012, 11:33:47 pm »

Unfortunately I never had legitimate Karate lessons I had "Babysitting money taking lessons" as a child (apperantly, I found this out much later that... This was a thing)

But to my knowledge there is no real "best" martial art.
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612DwarfAvenue

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2012, 12:31:47 am »

I'd say Krav Maga. It's a "win at all costs" style, specifically designed for actual real-world fighting instead of just exercise, even incorporating stuff that works from other martial arts. It's meant for finishing the fight as quickly as possible, going for vulnerable areas like the eyes, punching the neck, kick to the groin, anything that'll disable the other guy and leave him vulnerable.

Difficult for me to comment in great detail. I've never studied it personally, and I've never sparred with anyone who had more than a casual exposure to it.

However, as I understand it, one of the underlying concepts behind krav maga is that it's intended to get people "functional" in as short a time as possible. This is why it's taught by militaries: they have a limited training time, and other priorities. Soldiers need to learn to shoot, maintain equipment, drive vehicles, whatever. Hand to hand combat is not a priority, but it's something that does need to be covered...so the goal is to teach as much as possible within an extremely limited time frame.

If you only have a few weeks to train, and that's it...krav maga is probably a good choice. If you're looking for a "full" system to train with specifically for the purpose of becoming a fighter, I don't think that's something krav maga is really intended for.

Anyway, again: it comes down to what your goals are.

Well yeah. Krav Maga goes with the "less is more" approach, using a basic set of moves that you then use according to the situation. That's why it's quick to learn, and damn deadly. You're not learning 10 different roundhouse kicks and karate chops, you're slamming a dude into a wall, kicking his legs out from under him and kicking him again in the neck. Or he his has a knife, you block and grab his arm when he goes for the strike, pull him over, slam your fist on the back of his neck a couple of times before disarming him and going for the stab. Whatever works.
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Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2012, 12:34:27 am »

Krav Naga always reminds me of riot police.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2012, 12:40:02 am »

Krav Naga always reminds me of riot police.

This is the best possible recommendation for a martial arts style.  And I don't even know what Krav Naga is.
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Thecard

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2012, 12:43:07 am »

Krav Naga always reminds me of riot police.

This is the best possible recommendation for a martial arts style.  And I don't even know what Krav Naga is.
That's probably because "Krav Naga" doesn't exist.
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I think the slaughter part is what made them angry.
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612DwarfAvenue

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2012, 12:57:23 am »

Krav Naga always reminds me of riot police.

This is the best possible recommendation for a martial arts style.  And I don't even know what Krav Naga is.
That's probably because "Krav Naga" doesn't exist.

Krav Maga, on the other hand...
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Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2012, 12:57:56 am »

Indeed and Krav Maga always reminds me of Riot Police.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2012, 01:51:39 am »

Not to mention 9/10 jerks on the internet who know what Cracked is will say Krav Maga or Sambo if you ask then what martial art to use.  You don't want to be the guy who gets into the game and realizes /everyone/ is playing the same class as him.

I think there is some real truth to this, as I've heard multiple times from multiple fighters that the best thing is whatever your opponent has no experience dealing with.

I also appreciate that someone (I think it was LordBucket?) commented on the importance of grappling.  I can attest to that.  Weapons have been mentioned often, and grappling would be your best defense there.  I have no martial arts experience, but wrestled for 4 years in high school.  That's many hours of training in wrist control.  Someone tried to stab me once.  Right in the chest with a big knife.  It wasn't a pre-meditated attempt, but it was an attempt (I was stopping a suicide attempt).  I instinctively caught their wrist and no one was harmed.

My dad was also a wrestler and has multiple stories about taking down martial artists who tried to pick on him.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:53:41 am by SalmonGod »
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Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2012, 01:57:53 am »

I like the idea of taking martial arts. I never really attempted after the first time due to my temper and just how terrible it went the first time (as I said... fake lessons)

I do not want to put deadly force behind these arms. Even if I am terrified of being attacked.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 02:06:57 am by Neonivek »
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LordBucket

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2012, 03:30:18 am »

  I have no martial arts experience, but wrestled for 4 years in high school.  That's many hours of training in wrist control.  Someone tried to stab me once.  Right in the chest with a big knife.  It wasn't a pre-meditated attempt, but it was an attempt (I was stopping a suicide attempt).  I instinctively caught their wrist and no one was harmed.

My dad was also a wrestler and has multiple stories about taking down martial artists who tried to pick on him.

This is a large topic.

Speaking loosely, even any generic high school wrestler would probably stand a pretty good chance against a classically trained karate/kungfu/tae kwon do fighter with similar training time...provided that they're sturdy enough to take one or at most two strikes before the fight goes to the ground.

There are several reasons for this, but at the heart of it is that  lot of classical eastern martial arts focus exclusively on stand up fighting, and a lot of the power of their attacks comes from the way they interact with the ground. A proper karate punch generates only a very small portion of its power from the arm. Most of it comes from the hips, and the act of driving one leg into the ground with your entire body behind it into a punch.

If you can take a karate fighter off his feet, not only have you put him into an environment he hasn't much training in, you've immediately removed the majority of the power behind his attacks.  You've invalidated most of his training simply because it can't be done from the ground.

Quote
I also appreciate that someone (I think it was LordBucket?) commented on the importance of grappling.  I
can attest to that.  Weapons have been mentioned often, and grappling would be your best defense there.

Also complicated, but speaking from my own experience, I think we need to distinguish "grappling" in the sense of joint  and/or pressure point manipulation, from "throwing" techniques in the sense of smashing your opponent into the ground, and from "wrestling" in the sense of both parties on the ground attempting to render one another prone.

Joint manipulation is a popular thing, but...in my opinion, it is highly over rated. An awful lot of joint manipulation techniques can be completely avoided just by rotating an arm or shifting your weight by a tiny amount. There are also a significant number of people on whom pressure point techniques just flat out don't work. They either don't have the nerves they're supposed to, or they've grown enough muscle over them that it's impractical to get to them.

Unless you're significantly bigger and stronger than your opponent, I'd advise anyone against depending on any kind of joint or pressure point manipulation technique working like you want it to. I cannot count the number of times I've been on both the giving and receiving end some some technique during a training session that simply did not work because of the person it was being used on. If you do grappling for any length of time, or if you're simply bigger and stronger or even something as simple as having wider wrists that somebody...so many factors can make it completely trivial to avoid an awful lot of these techniques.

Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2012, 03:54:11 am »

That is true

Wrestling while often considered supperior does have a attribute issue that many other martial arts don't have.

When it comes to the "Best" martial art your own physique needs to be taken into account. Krav Maga for example is not a martial art for weaker people because it relies heavily on just outright brute strength that a smaller person may not have.

A select few of the Asian Martial arts were specifically made for people with a very small frame to defend themselves against larger opponents (This is a side effect of gender segregated martial arts training). Something Wrestling, Boxing, and many of the popular "beat up other martial artists" martial arts don't have.

While people who are smaller or weaker always have a disadvantage no matter what martial art they chose to do, you always want to do the moves that benefit you the most.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:55:55 am by Neonivek »
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LordBucket

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2012, 03:57:22 am »

Well yeah. Krav Maga goes with the "less is more" approach, using a basic set of moves that you then use according to the situation. That's why it's quick to learn, and damn deadly. You're not learning 10 different roundhouse kicks and karate chops, you're slamming a dude into a wall, kicking his legs out from under him and kicking him again in the neck. Or he his has a knife, you block and grab his arm when he goes for the strike, pull him over, slam your fist on the back of his neck a couple of times before disarming him and going for the stab. Whatever works.

Not really sure where you're going with this. Again, I've never sparred with any "serious" krav maga practitioners, but when I do a quick search on youtube for krav maga techniques...most of what I'm seeing looks like pretty generic stuff that you'd find at any McDojo. The only really distinctive things I'm seeing are the uncommitted body posture that looks like it's intended to avoid taking damage, and they seem to like repeated right handed jabs at close range.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Here's a History Channel video of some Internatinoal Krav Maga Federation training in Israel. Go ahead and watch it. Honestly...this looks like women's self defense seminar stuff.

Neonivek

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Re: Which martial art is best?
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2012, 04:04:12 am »

I will admit some of the videos of Krav Maga does look a bit... crazy... and by Crazy I mean almost excessively violent.

Then again it was someone demonstrating how to beat up someone with a riot shield.
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