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[Thecard]

Hehehe.
Also, it is possible to not pick a side by not participating in the debate.

Sonofabitch, I'm serious about that car.  But that would mean you literally have no idea either way.

I figure that I'll figure it all out when I'm dead. That'll probably backfire on me, but eh.

Yeah, it might, but I believe it's possible it won't. 
You might know, the Ten Commandments can be summarized into 1)Love God; 2)Love other people.
I figure if you aren't a dick, you're a lot safer than those who don't follow either law.

Spoiler: I guess this is sorta my views on others. (click to show/hide)

I feel like there are four kinds of people in the world, if you want to get as general as possible.  Looking at the two commandments I mentioned up above, I can sort of group people.  Those who follow neither law, those who follow law one but not law two, those who do the inverse, and those who follow both.

You find people who don't love other people, and that is just unbelievable to me.  It's terrible, the way some people act towards others.  I do not know when someone is completely this way, but I do know that there are few.  I also know they will not enter Paradise.

You find people who say they love God, yet they don't love other people.  Those are the "Christians" that justified slavery, the "Christians" who run Westboro.  They will be thrown out to the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and it pains me little to say that.  But it does pain me, still.

You find those who don't believe in God, but they aren't dicks.  I think of you guys as these people.  You don't believe in God, but you still have a conscience.  I cannot say what will happen to you.  That is completely up to God's judgement.  But hey, if you don't believe in Him, I can't change your views. 

You find those who love God and love others.  I hope I can be counted with these believers, but I know I am far from perfect.  But I can do the best I can.  And I can pray for forgiveness.  Lord knows we don't deserve it, but He still forgives us every time.

So... yeah.  I guess that's sorta my overall stance on y'all.  But I would never try to judge you, that isn't my place.  I want you guys to know that.

Hey, I wasn't ninja'd!  Hoo-fucking-ray!
Well, it did just turn into tomorrow.  I guess that explains why I wasn't interrupted.  Anyways, I seriously need some sleep.  'Night y'all, see ya' in like twelve hours!

[alway]

snip

There are massive, massive problems with building a working Von Neumann Machine. Even the smallest ones would fail pretty quickly, and ones complex enough to hold a human mind would barely get off the ground. Otherwise we'd have some already. Anyway, when I hear people talking about wanting to Von Neumann themselves, I think they're probably just enjoying the mental exercise rather than expressing a legitimate desire.

snip

I don't think that's going to work out. You could manage it in the early days, but there will eventually come a point where fighting mind copying is about as effective as fighting file copying: not.

By the time Von Neumann spacecraft are tenable, a mind would fit in a very small computer. The technological limit is the Von Neumann spacecraft; copying a mind, particularly one already stored in a computer, would be as easy and copying the computer holding it; which is, again, much more simple than building the Von Neumann spacecraft itself.

So, yeah, it could happen; though it's fairly certain that it wouldn't simply because, again, the Von Neumann spacecraft is the limiting factor here. If it were done, it would have to be done by a large organization.

However, it could very well be used for space colonization. Send a Von Neumann ship with either minds or the ability to engineer minds and the ability to create bodies for them, and suddenly you've managed to bypass all issues regarding life support and decades/centuries of living in interstellar space.

As for that last point: yeah; stopping illegal sharing of sentient beings will be impossible to stop altogether. However, it will likely be extraordinarily illegal to do, as it is so blatant a violation of sentient rights. As such, it will probably occur only a little less often then the sharing of CP; which is disturbingly common. Quite honestly, I could see the death penalty brought back for it, as it's the equivalent of kidnapping a person every time a duplicate is made and booted up. The possibilities for cruelty bring it into war crimes territory.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You might know, the Ten Commandments can be summarized into 1)Love God; 2)Love other people.

That is not exactly accurate. Especially the second point. The Ten Commandments demands towards treatment of other people are not very demanding: Honor your parents, don't kill, don't steal, don't adulterate, don't perjure, don't covet. I don't even violate those standards towards people I hate. Except the coveting, but that isn't even harmful.

As for the first, you could still love Yahweh and have other gods, worship Yahweh through a graven image, take his name in vain, and work on the Sabbath. It is very explicitly emphasizing a style of worship rather than loving this particular god at all.

So... yeah.  I guess that's sorta my overall stance on y'all.  But I would never try to judge you, that isn't my place.  I want you guys to know that.

You are totally judging us, you're just sugarcoating it and diverting it off onto your religion.

As for that last point: yeah; stopping illegal sharing of sentient beings will be impossible to stop altogether. However, it will likely be extraordinarily illegal to do, as it is so blatant a violation of sentient rights.

Criptfeind was talking about a legislated copy limit, not copying someone against their will.

[Criptfeind]

Yeah. Also I am not sure what you mean by the Von Neumann spacecraft being the limiting factor, what is so hard about it? Certainly the programing aspect, but that would be taken care of by the brain itself? Correct me if I am wrong, but it would just be like, a machine with the ability to make more of itself and move though space? We are already almost there with some of these crazy new printer things, just strap a engine onto it and let the brain handle the hard programing parts.

[Itnetlolor]

Yeah. Also I am not sure what you mean by the Von Neumann spacecraft being the limiting factor, what is so hard about it? Certainly the programing aspect, but that would be taken care of by the brain itself? Correct me if I am wrong, but it would just be like, a machine with the ability to make more of itself and move though space? We are already almost there with some of these crazy new printer things, just strap a engine onto it and let the brain handle the hard programing parts.

Just make sure to program it properly, otherwise, we may have a problem.

Spoiler: too late (click to show/hide)

I swear, there was just one here when I first posted.

[Grek]

Fortunately for us, you think with your brain and not with your soul. You don't have a soul. And by the time thought is understood well enough for mind forking and AI construction to be a thing, nobody will believe in souls anymore, no more than people now days believe in phlogiston.

So comments like this:

That soul is what makes us human, what lets us think.

Will no longer be an issue.

[Xantalos]

I just want to see what happens when/if humanity transcends reality. It's feasible that if you guys are doing it, others have already.

[Grek]

I just want to see what happens when/if humanity transcends reality. It's feasible that if you guys are doing it, others have already.

What does this even mean?

[Criptfeind]

Just make sure to program it properly, otherwise, we may have a problem.

That is exactly the issue I think, since the programing would be the person.

I just want to see what happens when/if humanity transcends reality. It's feasible that if you guys are doing it, others have already.

I don't think this makes sense even in the current talk of sci fi. So don't hold your breath. (Nor will you be able to see it if it does happen, because you will certainly be dead. I don't think any of us will live long enough to see eternal life.)

[Xantalos]

I just want to see what happens when/if humanity transcends reality. It's feasible that if you guys are doing it, others have already.

What does this even mean?

I figure that given enough time, time and space will begin to break down. If the multiversal theory is right, and you can harness enough energy, you humans may be able to propel yourselves beyond the universe and into the void between. And then encounter those who have gone before.

I'm talking way beyond current sci-fi, though. Like 'end of the universe' timescale.

[Grek]

There are so many problems with what you just said that I'm just going to summarize it as "No. Reality does not work like that."

[Criptfeind]

I'm still stuck at the 'you'. This is GD, not FG&RP. Is anyone else bothered by that sorta thing?

[Xantalos]

There are so many problems with what you just said that I'm just going to summarize it as "No. Reality does not work like that."

Yeah, please excuse my stupidity, I'm running on almost no sleep right now. What did I suggest again?

[Grek]

Problems, in the order they appear in reply #147:
1. Given enough time, time will break down. There is no possible amount of time long enough for time to break down. If time has broken down, then by definition one of the endpoints on the duration being specified is undefined, since you know, time broke down and is no longer working.
2. There is no reason to think tat time and space are fundamental objects, let alone unstable ones. In all likelihood, it is subatomic, quantum particles that are the fundamental objects of the universe and our notions of time and space are just abstractions of those interactions, just like our conception of iron is an abstraction for trillions upon trillions of iron atoms all interacting with each other.
3. There is no "the multiversal theory." I mean, for one they're called multiverse theories. Multiversal isn't a word. But more importantly, no realistic theory that could be described as a "multiverse theory" predicts any way to cross between "universes". Hubble volumes are by definition unable to contact each other, different Everett branches only interact in the non-communicative ways predicted by quantum physics and modal realism defines the different universe to be isolated from one-another.
4. Moreover, it's not entirely clear what you even mean by "universe" if two supposedly distinct universes can interact - if they can interact, they're really part of the same universe, abet a universe that is mostly divided into distinct chunks. As such, there is no amount of energy that would propel you from one universe to another - anywhere you can reach by any method using any amount of energy is part of our universe.
5. There's the point Criptfeind brought up as well: Why did you use the phrase "you humans" there? Huh?

So, in short: Get some sleep, man. Things will make way more sense once you do.

[alway]

Yeah. Also I am not sure what you mean by the Von Neumann spacecraft being the limiting factor, what is so hard about it? Certainly the programing aspect, but that would be taken care of by the brain itself? Correct me if I am wrong, but it would just be like, a machine with the ability to make more of itself and move though space? We are already almost there with some of these crazy new printer things, just strap a engine onto it and let the brain handle the hard programing parts.

It's not that easy to make interstellar spacecraft.
These are the current status of the only extrasolar spacecraft we have ever built, as of 2011:

After decades, only Voyager 1 is even far enough to be considered in 'interstellar space.' It's gone about 110 AU; 1 lightyear is about 62000 AU. Proxima Centauri is 4.2 lightyears away. Or approximately 590 feet to the right of your monitor at the scale shown in the diagram. And the only reason that one is as far is it is was the gravity assists from the 'grand tour' of the planets lining up correctly. And using that method only works if the planets not only line up correctly (1 in 110 years or so iirc), but also if they line up your direction with the star system correctly.

To make an interstellar journey, you need a very large amount of delta-v to escape the star's gravity, you need to survive for the entire trip (really hard to do; space is not a friendly environment), and then you need some way of slowing down again to orbit the target star system with enough left over to either mine asteroids or similar material acquisition. For it to be successful, it needs to reproduce multiple Von Neumann craft as well as be able to do all this without assuming the friendly conditions of planetary alignments or similar to aim in the maneuvers.